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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be pissed off at my DC being questioned at customs over whether I'm really their mother?

324 replies

Thumbeline · 31/07/2017 10:08

My DC have their father's surname. I now have my maiden name. I find it a bit sad that we don't have the same surname.

I have pretty much raised them single handedly.

DP and I have a baby, who has the same surname as DP, so I'm the only one in the family with a different surname.

We were returning to the UK from France the other day.

The customs official asked if we were a family. Yes, I replied. She then asked why we all have different surnames. It was so embarrassing. She asked if I had any proof I was the mother of my DC. I asked why, if I was abducting British children, from France, why I would be bringing them back to the UK, with their own passports...?

She then proceeded to cross question all the children. I was so angry and upset I could have cried.

OP posts:
Booboostwo · 01/08/2017 15:31

No the law only requires the authorization because it accepts that the authorization is presumed unless there is evidence to the contrary, e.g. a warrant out for the detention of the parent abducting the child. Nothing to do with particle physics, just standard legal practice. Consider how you are presumed innocent until proven guilty, the accusation requires proof, you don't need to go about with documents proving your innocence!

Booboostwo · 01/08/2017 15:32

Are you reading what you have copied and pasted? None of it imposes a legal requirement to have any of these documents.

YellowLawn · 01/08/2017 15:35

None of it imposes a legal requirement to have any of these documents. but it helps speed up the checks.

Lweji · 01/08/2017 15:37

Of course it's not a legal requirement, but if you don't have those documents, then expect to be queried.

Did you read the links?

lizzieoak · 01/08/2017 15:37

As a divorced parent I always carried a notarized letter signed by their dad, saying he allowed them to travel during that period.

I was slightly gobsmacked when they cross-examined my 16 year old and my 13 year old (the younger being taller than me at that point) as to whether or not they were travelling (back to our country of origin) willingly or not. The 16 year old was going through a very stroppy period and was next to impossible to get her to agree to anything, much less kidnapping, and the 13 year old was a big, strong lad who could have easily overpowered me if necessary.

With little kids it makes sense though, mostly because Of parental abductions.

mummyrabbitpeppapig · 01/08/2017 15:40

I returned from holiday and on arrival to the UK was asked if they two boys with me were mine. Was a bit taken aback but said yes they were. ( They have my xh surname ). No issues

Lweji · 01/08/2017 15:42

The "innocent till proven guilty" doesn't quite apply here, IMO.

We also have to show IDs, etc to open accounts, buy houses, even travel. We're not expected to be implicitly trusted.

And there may be a delay between an abduction is even detected and a court order being issued.

PS - the links were not to "show" there was a legal requirement to have paperwork, they were to clarify the situation. :)

SaintFrancis · 01/08/2017 16:42

'They do need an evidentiary basis to question a particular group. Imagine they were targeting people of a particular race on the assumption that these people were more likely to be smugglers...wouldn't you want to see evidence that people of this race do actually commit more crimes AND that questioning everyone of that race has an impact in reducing the crimes committed by some of them?'

The group in question are people who have children with them.

Do you really need a strong evidentiary basis that people travelling with a child are more likely to be abducting a child than people who don't have a child with them?

pollymere · 01/08/2017 17:54

When the ash cloud hit we couldn't fly and had to come back on a Ferry. When we got to UK, both me and my dd, aged about three, were questioned intensively to check I was her Mum, even though our passports were in the same name. It's routine, often if passport photos are old just to check you're not child smuggling I guess. I was travelling with her Dad (dh!) At the same time too!

BabychamSocialist · 01/08/2017 18:15

My kids have the same surname as DP (I'll be taking his name when we marry) and we still get questioned at customs. I mean, they have a completely different skin tone to us and look nothing like us (adopted) so that's more likely the reason!

treacle3112 · 01/08/2017 18:41

This happened to me 4yrs ago returning from Cuba with my son. He was cross questioned about who I was and everyone else in the group as well. It's common knowledge now that if you don't have the same surname as your children you need to take proof of ID with you. I'm getting married to my partner next year so will still have a different name to DS1 (he has exp name) so from then on I would need to take his birth certificate, my marriage certificate to prove my names changed from what is on his birth certificate, a letter from his dad that has been signed by him and witnessed by someone else to say I am allowed to take DS1 out the country and also a letter from an official to confirm I am who I say I am. This has been happening for years and I don't know why people are getting up right about it, surely it's better to answer some question for safety reason than the unthinkable happen?

expatparent · 01/08/2017 18:48

This used to happen to me quite a bit when my child was smaller. My DS has my husband's family name (different topic...). The justifcation given is prevention of is child trafficking and abduction. However...that supposes the mother is more likely to abduct a child than a father - unlikely I feel. And my DH was never asked when he travelled alone. And, what do you do about very common names like Kim, Singh, Chan, Smith? I think one in seven people in Korea is called Kim. Just because you have the same name doesn't mean there is a blood relationship.
In the end when asked why (or why I hadn't taken my husband's name - Grrh), I just used to say '1840, Married Womens' Property Act' (which stopped a woman being her husband's property). That usually shut them up.

SunshineAndSmile · 01/08/2017 19:09

I have a different name and nationality to my DC but they both look very like me.
I have never been quizzed entering or leaving the UK only entering countries in Europe.

MissSeventies · 01/08/2017 19:33

I don't think you are U to feel upset. I kept my own name. Children have father's name. I have marriage cert and birth cert photocopies to hand for this very reason. It does grate me though that by the same logic SMIL who does have the same name but whom DH is NC with could sail through no questions asked.

rubyandemeraldslippers · 01/08/2017 19:37

This happened to my cousin and her little boy and her partner (not the boy's father). They have 3 surnames as the little boy has his father's surname and my cousin is divorced and uses her maiden name.

The passport inspector at the airport queried them when they returned from holiday. The partner challenged this and the passport inspector then said that the boy should bring his birth certificate next time. The partner asked "is that a legal requirement?". One very red faced Blush passport inspector had to admit that it is not, he was just Being a jerk Wink.

justtiredofcoping · 01/08/2017 19:51

Like i said - no problem in principle but ask everyone.

Cut the moralising and look at the screen. The travel record is there.

My issues started when my DPs OW reported me to immigration as an abduction risk at the same time as for benefit fraud and tax evasion - has caused me enough problems, the others all resolved - this one just pisses me off - if their father was asked then fine but he never is.!

cherish123 · 01/08/2017 20:18

I am married to DCs' father but have always used my maiden name. I was once asked if my DS was my child and where his father was (I was on my own with him coming home from a France).

forfuckssakenet · 01/08/2017 20:38

It enrages me and I will never be getting a letter from the dc father on point of principle. It's ridiculous,

MissSeventies · 01/08/2017 20:55

You have hit the nail on the head as to why it annoys me. It. Is always the mother that has to bear the brunt of this. My DH would not be asked to produce a letter of permission from me. I know this is not the reason but it makes me as a woman feel second class. Husband has 'ownership' on the children and I am just the, seriously underpaid, nanny.

SayNoToCarrots · 01/08/2017 21:11

It is not always the mother who bears the brunt. It is the person whose name differs from the child. Don't give your child your husband's name without your own if this matters so much to you.

MissSeventies · 01/08/2017 21:17

Who is almost always the mother and it is not that simple to just give the name. There are a lot of men, still, who are not that keen on their wife having a different name let alone the children having a double barrel and then of course there are blendes families where the mother did stick with tradition and take the husband's name but now has another husband's name. There are not many cases even today where the father has a different surname.

Miniminimus · 01/08/2017 21:17

".....evidence of your relationship with the child, eg a birth or adoption certificate a divorce or marriage certificate, if you are a single parent but your family name is different from the child’s"

I find the government guidance above quute oppressive. I'm all for lessening the risk of child abduction, but using different surnames as a shorthand for who to check feels discriminatory as well as inaccurate. I am split up from my DC's father (though they have his surname which is different from mine). They are fully resident with me and do not live or even overnight with him and see him very infrequently (his choice, so we have never needed a residence hearing). Relations are not great between us and he would not give permission for travel... just to make life more difficult for me. He would also enjoy having the power to say no. So far the last 10 years the children and I have not travelled abroad. Money is too tight to risk a holuday being ruined at the border.

What is doubly annoying is that by this guidance, Ex P could take my children abroad (or potentially abduct them), without challenge simply because they share a surname. Presumably his new wife (his surname) who they have met once could take my children abroad in the same way. Yet I have to travel with birth certs and permission from a man who plays no active part in my children's care or upbringing.

Very frustrating and feels patriarchal.

justtiredofcoping · 01/08/2017 21:24

Ask the questions just stop the moral lectures - that is what pisses me off.

Most recent official- was just an arse. Asked me DOB, weight when born!!!!!! FFs that is available on his passport.
Asked DCs who I was - they rolled their eyes and gave me a hug and eldest siad why don't you ask my dad these questions?

It is also - birth cert- did not have a problem, then it was marriage cert, then it was the next thing - I have now been told to carry 8 pieces of paper - get real. Scanned them onto my phone but that was not acceptable apprarently I could have forged them.......!

If I was a risk why do you not question me when I leave the country, only when I return home!

SayNoToCarrots · 01/08/2017 21:41

MissSeventies perhaps the fact that so many women are denied (or don't even want) the right to have their relationship to their own children reflected in their names should be the focus of your rage., rather than passport officials questioning relationships that are not clear.

MissSeventies · 01/08/2017 22:00

I don't have any rage to focus tbh. I replied to a Mumsnet thread and as a mother who kept her own name on marriage I am like yeah that annoys me too.

For me it is at present not a huge problem because when I travel with DC, DH is there too, but I am annoyed at Miniminimus's situation which when you consider the, awful, possibility of EXP's new wife being able to sail pass passport control with the children makes somewhat of mockery of the surnames always making the relationship clear.

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