To be pissed off at my DC being questioned at customs over whether I'm really their mother?

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My DC have their father's surname. I now have my maiden name. I find it a bit sad that we don't have the same surname.

I have pretty much raised them single handedly.

DP and I have a baby, who has the same surname as DP, so I'm the only one in the family with a different surname.

We were returning to the UK from France the other day.

The customs official asked if we were a family. Yes, I replied. She then asked why we all have different surnames. It was so embarrassing. She asked if I had any proof I was the mother of my DC. I asked why, if I was abducting British children, from France, why I would be bringing them back to the UK, with their own passports...?

She then proceeded to cross question all the children. I was so angry and upset I could have cried.

Me,.the DC's and DH all have the same surname. When we were coming back from Turkey the passport control person asked my oldest to point out his Mum and Dad, DH had already gone through I was still in the queue with younger DS. He asked if we all lived together, where had he been, where was he going now? Etc etc. I didn't care and neither did he. They have a job to do and they do it for a very good reason.

I live in France and dont have the same name as my dc, so Im used to being asked if they are my children and carry birth certificates etc

Exh also gets stopped when he is taking them back to the UK and he has the same name.

In France many people are not married and the majority of babies are born to unmarried women, however many are pacs (, Pacte Civil de Solidarité;) women retain their maiden name, but any children born can have either the mothers, fathers or both names. They also have a Livret de famille which is either given when they marry or when the first baby is born to an unmarried couple it has details of parents etc in it, and birth certificates of children or extracts very handy in this sort of situation

Higglety I forgot I still have ds lo to de familia. If I took that and his deed poll form it would prove in his mum.
I have no documentation to say he resides with me and contact details for his father.
I'm sure if ever asked ds would tell the passport control people exactly what he thinks of his father though

Meh, this happens to me all the time. I don't feel judged, they're doing their jobs. i carry copies of birth certificates and sometimes I'm asked questions like what are my children's birthdays, sometimes they just watch the way we interact, sometimes nothing. If some children are protected by this line of questioning, then I couldn't care less. Find something more important to be angry about, OP

coddiwomple I am not asking you to tell us the names of the people involved, but to link to statistics that show this public policy is effective. So X number of abducted/assumed trafficked children, Y number apprehended at borders before the introduction of this questioning and Y+ number after the policy. Because policies that limit civil liberties require justification, and unjustified policies that limit civil liberties should be met with shock and anger, especially in the kind of political climate we are living in.

babybarrister I think you know yourself why your claim doesn't make for a very convincing argument.

Your response was unreasonable. Better they ask and embarrass you about the surnames than some poor kid get trafficked.

How are anybody's civil liberties being infringed by being asked basic questions at passport control?

You're not being interrogated. In some countries you can't even leave the country with children unless you have a prior stamp in your passport with the children's names filled in previously.

People have always been questioned when entering and leaving countries. It isn't some kind of new policy.

YABU if they only catch one child being abducted then it's worth the inconvenience.

Actually, I also think it's concerning that you generally don't get asked as a mother with the same surname.

I'm separated & now live overseas with my dc. Ex is extremely unhappy about this. I have (& carry) a court order confirming that kids reside with me in Forn Parts.

Never, ever been asked for it, despite flying merrily in & out of the UK with dc at least twice a year, plus other holidays abroad.

Customs apparently just glance at mum + 3dc, same name (will change when I need to update passport but atm is still my married name, X's surname, like the dc), similar appearance etc & wave us through.

I could very easily be buggering off abroad away from my estranged h, dc's dad, without any authority to do so, whilst customs are busy interrogating Ms Smith & her children Master & Miss Jones because her husband & their father Mr Jones doesn't happen to be travelling with them.

It's inconsistent. I'd be happier if I did occasionally be asked tbh.

Blimey damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I'm over 40, but my Indian passport has my parents names on it. It's just the way the passport is designed.

Saintfrancis your civil liberties are infringed if you are targeted, stopped and questioned based on a claim that has no basis in reality. It is also problematic to expect parents to travel with birth certificates, marriage certificates and other documents which are not legally required for entry into the country. Finally if certain people are disproportionately targeted in the first place, I.e. those with a different surname to their children, again with no evidence that there is any correlation between different surnames and abductions/trafficking, this is also clearly problematic.

The idea that governmental bodies must have a legal and evidentiary basis before stopping and questioning citizens is a cornerstone of civil liberties.

Everyone is stopped at passport control.

They don't need an evidentiary basis to question you further. They do random spot checks.

But we have seen on this thread that even when we share names the border control staff are taking a special interest in young kids.

( Though Lweji' s post makes me wonder if maybe our kids just look a bit disconnected!)

Yes, of course they look more at kids, because there are more laws about protection of children's rights from adults.

My "but.." was in answer to Boo's post.

I don't think it's a bad thing to be checking on children, at all.

Ime they are doing so even where surnames are shared.

YABU

I don't think it's a bad thing for them to be checking that they're your children. We get asked all the time (mixed race family) despite all having the same surname.

I think your problem was actually questioning the customs officer. In my experience it's best to answer their questions without getting annoyed or questioning them.

It's best not to mess with customs/security staff, in fact any airport or airline staff at all as it can only end badly.

I always carry DC's birth certificate

They do need an evidentiary basis to question a particular group. Imagine they were targeting people of a particular race on the assumption that these people were more likely to be smugglers...wouldn't you want to see evidence that people of this race do actually commit more crimes AND that questioning everyone of that race has an impact in reducing the crimes committed by some of them?

Children's rights are not protected by ineffective policies. Headlines are made and it looks like someone is doing something, but that doesn't mean much in reality. There are an estimated 23,000 to 90,000 unaccompanied children refugees in Europe at the moment, I can think of plenty of other things the governments of Europe could be doing to protect them from abuse than the questioning.

There are an estimated 23,000 to 90,000 unaccompanied children refugees in Europe at the moment, I can think of plenty of other things the governments of Europe could be doing to protect them from abuse than the questioning.

Different issues. Those refugees don't arrive or circulate by plane.

It is also problematic to expect parents to travel with birth certificates, marriage certificates and other documents which are not legally required for entry into the country.

Aren't they?

Aren't children only supposed to travel between countries with the authorisation of their legal guardians? How are passport control supposed to know if there is that permission? Anyone accompanying children should be able to prove that they are either the guardian or have permission.

Those refugees are trafficked. The checks are supposed to catch traffickers. I entirely agree with you that the trafficked children are unlikely to come in through airports, therefore the questioning is pointless.

The law only requires the authorization, it does not require proof of the authorization. Going beyond what the law requires isn't exactly how civil liberties are eroded.

The law only requires the authorization, it does not require proof of the authorization.

How do you reconcile the two? How are they supposed to know if it's authorised?
Are we entering Schroedinger's territory?

Actual Home Office info to the UK:

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/224634/Children_travelling_to_the_UK_leaflet_A5_WEB_final.pdf

We hope you appreciate the importance of the additional checks we carry out for children travelling into the UK and understand the reasons for them should you feel you have been unduly delayed.
We do not wish to delay your journey any longer than necessary. It may help you next time you travel if you could carry evidence of your relationship with the child and/or the reason why you are travelling with the child.

This evidence could include copies of:
• a birth or adoption certificate showing your relationship with the child
• divorce / marriage certificates if you are the parent but have a
different surname to the child
• a letter from the child’s parent/s giving authority for the child to
travel with you and providing contact details if you are not the parent.
Border Force officers will seek to establish the relationship between
children and the adults who are accompanying them or who are meeting them on arrival in the UK, before allowing them to leave the UK border.
Performing these checks does not affect the right to freedom of movement for UK and other EEA citizens.

From the UK:

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

You must get the permission of everyone with parental responsibility for a child or from a court before taking the child abroad.
Taking a child abroad without permission is child abduction.

You automatically have parental responsibility if you’re the child’s mother, but you still need the permission of anyone else with parental responsibility before you take the child abroad.

You can take a child abroad for 28 days without getting permission if a child arrangement order says the child must live with you, unless a court order says you can’t.

Get permission from someone with parental responsibility

A letter from the person with parental responsibility for the child is usually enough to show you’ve got permission to take them abroad.

You might be asked for the letter at a UK or foreign border, or if there’s a dispute about taking a child abroad. The letter should include the other person’s contact details and details about the trip.

It also helps if you’ve:

evidence of your relationship with the child, eg a birth or adoption certificate a divorce or marriage certificate, if you are a single parent but your family name is different from the child’s