To be at breaking point with fussing, faffing husband

[baileysicecream]

We have two adult children - well, one adult, one nearly adult. DH retired last year.

Since then he has driven me almost to breaking point. I can't misplace anything, no matter how temporarily or fleetingly. I had a brief fumble for keys yesterday and made the mistake of "wondering" out loud where they were. DH promptly went into "panic" mode. "Where are they? Where did you last have them? Could you have left them in the car / my parents house / DDs room / DSs room / bathroom / bowels of Hell. All this time I was saying "hang on, DH, they are here somewhere. Just wait." And then "Have you found them? Have you found them? DD come here, your mother has lost her keys."

I did find them and honestly i think I'd have located them in thirty seconds if it wasn't for DH.

DS likes to drive now he's passed his test and I'm seriously worried DH is going to cause an accident. Yesterday we were coming out of a supermarket and a car was approaching the red traffic lights so DS pulled out. DH let out an almighty squeal and tried to "fling" his body in front of DS, which is touching in a weird way, but DS obviously had to slam on the brakes and luckily for us we had an understanding lady behind us and P plates on the car. DH just kept saying "sorry, sorry, I didn't realise" but that's not the point, even if the lights hadn't been on red both DS and the other car were going slowly and any real damage unlikely. It's like he just reacts.

He's always woken early but lately it's beyond a joke. 4 am and he's crashing around, letting the dog upstairs so she runs into DD and DSs rooms licking them and wanting to play. When they object DH keeps thundering about getting up early being wonderful and how they are missing the best part of the day. Both of them have summer jobs and DD started crying yesterday as she was on 8-8 in a nursing home and was exhausted as her dad woke her up and she couldn't get back to sleep.

I know these examples must sound ridiculous but it's having a horrendous impact on family life. It's like living with an exuberant toddler.

I don't think we do, Over, we have all got angry/upset with him at one time or another.

He doesn't thunder on. It might go something like:

DD shouts "DAD!" in frustration. He appears at her bedroom while DD is trying to reign in a frantically squirming puppy. He asks her, baffled "what?"
"It's 4 in the morning!"
"I know! Best part of the day! You don't want to miss it."

Yep, GP. Sounds like stress/anxiety/depression don't LTB. Sometimes when you retire it's like a grief reaction. It sounds like he loves you and the family very much, but he doesn't realise what he is doing to those around him. All the best OP

I feel for both of you: your DH because I had a period of extreme anxiety a couple of years ago and can identify with some of his behaviour, but I also see how hard it is for you to live with as my own DH is now having some mental health problems (currently being investigated for possible bipolar).

In my scenario, it was a horrendous job which basically caused me so much stress that I became very anxious and depressed. I would find it very hard to sleep and then would wake at 3am and be panicking over something completely ridiculous e.g. where was my DS' birth certificate (just out of the blue - not because I needed it). I wouldn't be satisfied until i had got up and turned the house upside down looking for it, and if i couldn't immediately find it then I'd have to get DH up too to help me look as I panicked.

If anyone did anything out of the ordinary and that wasn't in the regular routine, i would panic. So your comment about your DH freaking that you had used the spare key to unlock the door - that would have sent me into a spiral, too.

I knew full well that I was being unreasonable but I couldn't help it, so unfortunately having a family meeting where people told me everything i was doing wrong wouldn't have helped a bit - in fact it would have depressed me more (my family don't like me - something else to obsess over).

It took me a while and a few visits to my GP before he referred me to a local MH service, I worked with them for about 6 months and gradually got things back into perspective. For me, the key was getting a new job - in your DH's case it seems retirement has set this in motion for him, so would it be an option for him to find a volunteer role, or do some part-time agency work etc? If he can find a new daily routine and a life goal then it might help.

Not sure if this helps, but i hope you manage to move things forward.

I read this with growing concern OP, and I think it would be a very good idea for you to book an appointment with your GP (book a double one), don't pre warn him and take him to talk it through with them. You can always email your gp with some notes before you go.
Waking at 4am is a classic sign of depression/anxiety, and to be honest, I think you must have the patience of a saint to still be living with such a difficult person. It's a miracle that your kids are still living at home frankly, as they have no space from this man. I think your DD especially needs a note on her door DO NOT WAKE UNTIL AFTER 6.30am and a lock on there. Her dad should never be waking her up at 4am when she's got a 12 hour shift in front of her, and the fact you're allowing him to is appalling. I wouldn't be living in a home where that happened.

If DH and DD have always been close, maybe try playing that angle. She's in tears because she's so tired, and he did that. Oblivious or not oblivious, if he can't assimilate that information (presented seriously and without faffing or subtext so he can't possibly misunderstand) and act accordingly, then I agree with a PP - an ultimatum is in order.

He needs to either figure out how to faff quietly, or go and live alone, because there are three other people in that house and none of them wants to get up at four. Bottom line, he is being selfish. Tell him that. In those words. "You are being selfish. When you do these things in the morning and wake everyone up, this is what happens. I am angry. DS is annoyed. DD is in tears because she is so exhausted."

What time does he go to bed? Is he having a normal amount of sleep?

Apart from the waking everyone at 4am my df is like this he is now late 70s and I agree retirement is a huge factor in it.
However I won't be tolerating it from my dh ( although he'dneed a character transplant!) I would be telling him he isnt in and I'm not prepared to put up with 30uears of this behavioir so he would either need to have a word with himself or seek help. No way would I be indulging this. He is 60 not 90. And imagineif he is like this for another 30 years?
I would also have read the riot act over the early waking. He wouldn't have had chance to get his opinion across. He isnt in charge of a class now. You aren't his students.

Could he get a new job paid or voluntary? Did he have plans and was he looking forward to retiring?

OK, you mentioned he thunders on somewhere which is why I thought he did.

If he's not willing to consider changing his behaviour or to see a GP in case it's related to a heath issue, your DD will just have to put up with being woken at 4am until she's old enough to move out.

It's very unfair to place his behaviour at my door, Jane

I am posting on here because I have told him, screamed at him, yelled at him. I dragged him into the kitchen today where a tearful DD was trying to have a cup of tea and screamed at him something like "There? Are you happy now that she's enjoyed the best part of the day" which might not have been the best way of dealing with it but I was furious my child was so exhausted and would have to do a long day in a demanding job. DD was tearfully trying to say "it's okay ... but, Dad, please stop ..." He was looking all huffy and saying "WELL, I am sorry" but not really looking sorry, looking around the room with an incredulous look.

Although he'd never admit it I think he misses them being small when they worshipped him.

The sad thing is they still do but he can't see it.

I feel for you. He has probably dreamed of retirement which is why he won't contemplate doing anything else but clearly it doesn't suit him.

Obvs you can't diagnose over the internet, but if your son has high functioning autism, and your DH has rigid behaviours and can't cope with change there are a few clues there.

He does need to do something more than dog, book holidays and faff - the question is how you get him there. This is likely to take a concerted prolonged family effort - perhaps starting with a family meeting for ground rules: no waking up working people at 4am for starters, you can think of the rest.

However one family meeting is unlikely to fix it - you will probably need a programme of weekly ones to address infringements and a few instances of going ballistic for him to really get the message.

My Dad drove my Mum insane for about a year. Eventually after many rows he found U3A, volunteering for Dial-a-Ride and another volunteering job tinkering about on boats. Filled his time up beautifully and stopped him getting tedious - which was great, as he was in reality sparkly. However initially he was insistant he had retired to rest.

He doesn't sound at all well.

He gets up at 4am & really can't see that he should be quiet & leave others to get up when they want/need to?

If he's sorry, why does he keep doing it?

They won't worship him of he insists on sleep deprivation.

Get a small backpack. Put treats, poo bags, handful of cash, trolley, water bottle, snack bar, jumper/ waterproof in and send him to walk the dog for 2 hours every morning, bag is ready.

Why are your coats upstairs?

indeed!

Beep if I moved everything downstairs then nothing would be upstairs. The point is the faffing, not what he needs.

The coats are upstairs because it's summer and we don't now use them much.

Ah, cross-posted with you.

Are you able to address with him that they are growing up? And they love him but he has to treat them differently now? It would probably be very powerful for him to hear it from your daughter - it sounds as if the dynamic at the moment is that he upsets her, she tries to appease him, and then tells you and you console her. To navigate into adulthood she needs to be able to tell him her feelings directly - at the moment he can dismiss everything you say about him being unreasonable as your daughter says it's alright to him even if she is crying at the time.

@Crumbs1 that doesn't sound like faffing, that sounds extremely organised and assertive and generous!

One of my relatives (also a teacher...) went a bit like this after retirement. She's always been a bit prone to fussing and flapping but for about 3 years it was in total overdrive. Calls/texts/summons multiple times a day, "just to check that..." or to worry out loud about something that really REALLY didn't matter. Anything that required any kind of planning, even what sandwiches to make for friends coming over to dinner, became a major stress-filled operation. It was maddening.

But even though this is a thing some people do, it does sound like your DH is extreme enough that it's worth him seeing his GP if he absolutely won't/can't change anything himself. Nearly causing car accidents and waking the whole household up at 4am is not right.

He's going to lose them OP.
If he doesn't respond to being spoken to, what about a letter? Seems daft perhaps, but he can't walk away in a huff/talk over them.
Maybe seeing it in black and white would help?

Have everything you've ever needed for a walk;
-treats, poo bags, cash, water bottle, snack, jacket, lead, a torch

Leave the coats downstairs near the wellies and umbrella for wet days.

He sounds like my elderly parents, fussing and panicking over the smallest things. But they are in their 80s. I don't see how the family can put up with it for years and years to come.

You can probably humour him or ignore the faffing but waking people at that hour is ridiculous. Like a pp said, surely he knows the average person is not up at 4am. If he won't accept that rationally, maybe there are health issues.

baileys did you see what I wrote about anxiety and hypervigilance? Sounds as if he has some sort of issue with social awareness and empathy for how his behaviour affects others.

Have you given him any sort of ultimatum in terms of "You WILL see the GP (with me) by....date"?

He seems to lack 'theory of mind'
Theory of mind (often abbreviated ToM) is the ability to attribute mental states—beliefs, intents, desires, pretending, knowledge, etc.—to oneself and others and to understand that others have beliefs, desires, intentions, and perspectives that are different from one's own
(Wikipedia )