To think a double masectomy for a 13 yr old girl is child abuse

[AssignedMentalAtBirth]

twitter.com/peepartist/status/890693730126188544

All the adults in this girl's life have failed her.

It's truly sickening

This is Texas, coming here soon

WhamBarsArentAsFizzyAsTheyWere

I'm really glad. And I know you feel like you're on a tight rope.

From other things I have read, despite puberty looming as such a dreadful thing, often it is the click that settles things down.

I'm still reading, so if I find anything I think will help, I'm happy to PM you with it. You can decide whether it's suitable for your child.

BelligerentGardenPixies I can enpathise with where you are coming from.

I've been thinking of a summer when I was about 9 that I wanted to be a boy/man and wear trousers and it being such a strong feeling I never told anyone!! I think it was a combination of being a bit tomboyish and not liking the restrictions placed on girls/women, but also of not liking the sexualisation that happens to girls/women and that I could forsee happening to me.

At that time I couldn't have put it into exactly those words at that age, but I learned it later.

I pretty happy being myself/ a woman now - I'd rather not have the abuse and stuff though.

The AGP stuff is :(

@Datun

That seems like a massive stretch.

I have concerns about people thinking that specific activities and habits are the preserve of one gender, but I don't think that explains most people who are transitioning. There are plenty of tough women who stay as women out there and make their way into the world, and the same for men who are more sensitive.

I also think in general that people aren't saying "don't mention abortion or pregnancy" just because transwomen can't get pregnant, because there are women who can't get pregnant for many reasons who aren't trans (for example, early hysterectomies or similar). In the normal parts of the Internet (where the crazies aren't), I've never seen any suggestion of this.

@user1487064897

The context for that tweet is the-orbit.net/zinniajones/2015/05/bathroom-bills-dehumanization-and-control-gender-analysis-06/

It seems misleading to not link it. (and that doesn't mean I agree with the conclusion, but I think putting the bare text on its own sans context doesn't serve to further the discussion)

Yes Random but even some cursory research would have lead to some of the comments this person has made about women in general.
Are you really trying to say that a misogynist is going to tell the truth about a misogynistic fetish that members of their community have. Really, I don't think you didn't do your research I think you are trying to muddy the waters.

SantaHelena

There is a Facebook page that concerned mumsnetters have set up. Link below. It's a closed group. They are worried about hacking and abuse.

It was on the back of this new law set to come out in the autumn for self identification. The page is not specifically about the transing of children, although as many of them are parents, this is forming part of it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2988720-Facebook-group

I find this utterly horrific. That poor child. Hormones, surgery all of it should be banned in under 18s.

Random, you come onto a thread about child abuse and derail it by policing the OP's language? Seriously?

@user1487064897

I imagine some people have a misogynistic fetish, the argument made on that page is that there are significant stretches to get to the argument they're making and that the evidence has been tortured.

Can you provide the link about it being transphobic to not have sex with somebody with a penis? It doesn't seem obvious on their blog.

Can you provide the link about it being transphobic to not have sex with somebody with a penis? It doesn't seem obvious on their blog.

Why should we provide all those links nicely and handily for you, when this is all over the internet and you could easily google it yourself?

Do educate yourself. Invest the tiny bit of work of using google.

Just read the articles on a site like "Everyday Feminism" or the like and you will soon realize that the rape of lesbians by coercion is one of the main pillars of transactivism. They call it "cotton ceiling".

Thank you datun. That's good to know.
The problem is that anyone can probably sign up so it can easily be infiltrated. I'd worry about using FB.

This is something everyone who still naively thinks the transing of children is not something that is very, very, very mainstream in transactivism, should read:

4thwavenow.com/2017/07/23/i-just-gave-him-the-language-top-gender-doc-uses-pop-tart-analogy-to-persuade-8-year-old-girl-shes-really-a-boy/

Read it. I just happened to have the link handy, so I post it.

But really, do your own research.

It is not feminists' job to educate you.

Do they fund DTM transiting too?

Even the term 'transiting' is such bollox. Quite new age isn't it?

• transing

Do they fund DTM transing in iran too?

Vestal. I know what you're saying - but it's only once you know a topic well that you can tell which sources are reliable and aren't. So if you're a bit of an expert already, you can easily signpost to articles for people who are only just becoming aware, and I think that can only be a good thing? Isn't that the point?

VestalVirgin

I listened to that recording. Unbelievable

Unbelievable.

What a bitch that 'MD' is.

Many, many western MtT follow the same old pattern.

1. IT industry, history of secret cross dressing, pornsick, loves anime (talks about their panties and 'buds' as in budding breasts through hormones.

2. Always been a very stereotypical bloke, muscles, into the gym and probably was in the army/navy. Very Hypermascaline roles/jobs.

3. Grew up in a very conservative and/or religious household with rigid stereotypes

4. Grew up in an era with very rigid stereotypes

5. Females who want to escape the patriarchy and the idealised pornographic view of lesbians.

It's the cross dressing, AGP, Fetishists that are behind all this. Pushing for their sexual kink to be normalised.

And children are caught up in all of it.

I do wonder what happens when all the AGPs and crossdressers get their own way and are allowed to be what was a scintillating behind doors kink and now they get all giddy with the ability to be this all the time...will they get bored when it isn't so shocking? Because it's been normalised?

random79

How about trans-activists who write for the national press? Would you consider that mainstream enough? Not the dark corners of the Internet?

The one I'm thinking of has described in great detail how empowering it is to pick up as many strange men as possible, get gangbanged in as many orifices as possible. Whilst revelling in the fact that no names are exchanged, and delighted by the last-minute addition of the taxi driver that drove them to the hotel. That women should feel empowered by this and embrace it. The same person said there is nothing like the turn on of fucking someone who is crying.

Also I'm not sure that Twitter and Facebook are the dark quarters of the Internet, either. I have seen literally hundreds of tweets and fb threads saying women's biology is exclusionary. And it's not politely expressed, either.

I generally try and refrain from posting screenshots. Because people think it is rare. It's so bad and so ludicrously misogynistic, that it gets disbelieved. People dismiss it as something not plausible, or representative. As you do.

I can promise you it is representative.

Trans-people themselves write about it in horror. Again, see Miranda Yardley.

yallcrazy, the thing is that I have found it pretty pointless to invest the work of finding articles I read and linking them for genderists; they'll always find some argument against it, always say "Oh, that's just some crazy person", et cetera.
And no matter what source, the genderist will always claim the source is not reliable if it is gender critical.

And I find it plays into the expectation that women (or rather, lowly ciswomen, to make it clear to the genderists reading here) do loads and loads of unpaid work without even being thanked for it. I am massively fed up with it.

Nothing against people who want to do that work, but I feel rather burnt out at the moment so will only post links I happen to have come across recently.

Do they fund DTM transing in iran too?

DTM? Do you mean FTM? I do think so. Some misogynist societies are pretty open about letting a few chosen women escape the gender prison, provided that all other women stay neatly in the box and serve as chattel.

Yall

It does get a bit wearisome when someone turns up at a thread shouting Bigot, and then says they don't know much about it. It happens all the time. Then they flounce because they can never defend their position, because it is logically indefensible.

Some of us get a bit ratty sometimes (me) but many of the posters are saintlike in their patience, Datun particularly.

@Vestal

The reason I ask for links is

1. After a brief search, I found nothing that would particularly reflect on that.
2. Frequently I've found the descriptions misleading or lacking somewhat important context.

I've found (through a google search) everydayfeminism.com/2017/04/cissexist-say-never-date-trans/

Which would appear to be something similar to that article, except it ends with:

"And the last thing I want to say about this is that if you’d rather not have sex with a woman who has a penis, maybe just don’t make such a huge deal of it. Trans women are often afraid of not being found attractive or desirable after coming out, and you’re not helping.

[...]

It’s fine to not find people attractive, but it’s mean to constantly yell about how unattractive you find those people, especially when those people are oppressed. For another imperfect analogy, it’d be like if you weren’t attracted to girls with short hair."

I don't agree with what they say - but I'd also say that if this if this was being described as "transphobic for a lesbian not to have sex with a transwoman with a penis", I think that it's a fairly strong simplification and quite misleading.

(I've intentionally elided as it made it very long otherwise, the transcript is available on page and I've otherwise copy&pasted)

With regards to 5 I kinda forgot what mu opening sentence was so added FtT by accident.

At my local pride parade the trans section was EXCLUSIVELY:

• biologically male
• white
• middle aged
• Not trying to pass types, all Dame-ey!

The transmen seemed to be finding their allys with gay and lesbian sections, there were none in the trans-rights section!

Ah I see, sorry! I'm fairly new to the debates (though not Mumsnet).

I have noticed many shouts of "transphobia!" with no obvious explanation as to why.