To think a double masectomy for a 13 yr old girl is child abuse

[AssignedMentalAtBirth]

twitter.com/peepartist/status/890693730126188544

All the adults in this girl's life have failed her.

It's truly sickening

This is Texas, coming here soon

In case anyone is wondering, the child said of their surgeon (when questioned about why have the surgery so young) that the surgeon believes there shouldn't be an age requirement for the surgery because he knows it affects people under the age of 16. If you're there saying you need it, with consenting parents and a therapist letter, he will do it.

@Blanchefleur

I don't agree with it, and I think people should wait. I am not a fan of children transitioning. I mentioned this above.

But the bigotry dripping out of this thread (and most of the trans threads) is painful. So why not stop it? You can make your point without it.

The surgery and hormones also means that these children will never have an orgasm. Never have a mutually satisfying sex life

How many 12 and 13 year olds are even thinking about sex? Of course they are willing to give up something they haven't even had so won't miss. There's no way they could comprehend what it all actually means.

What goes through the Drs heads when they agree to do all this?

I'm not saying people shouldn't ever do it. People feel how they feel and if hormones and surgery is what they want/need then go for it. I will call you jane/Adam and treat you as I would anyone else.

But these are just kids...it just can't be so intense at that age surely just a few short years befire they hapliky running around wearing and playing with what ever they liked? I mean i have briefky explained a little bit to dd1in what I hoped was an appropriate way, but to be so deep into this so young, where does it start?

I thought as well that the UK banned cosmetic surgery in children, except in exceptional circumstances. So obviously deformities or burns/accidents are fine. But not for example a nose job on a perfectly healthy ordinary nose.

Never having an orgasm is an enormous thing to give up. And no at 12 and 13 years of age I would not have really understood that.

Random
" The aim of writing the title like the OP did is to actually hide the fact it's about transitioning"

• No that's a downright lie and you are pushing your own agenda here, which is to shame us into using compelled language. I won't. And no amount of you shouting bigot and taking shite about 'nuanced debate' will make me do so

@Datun

So use their name/surname or group descriptor.

transwomans' penises
Manning's penis

Again, avoidable. Requires a tiny modicum of thought.

This is horrific :(

And poor Jazz.

If a child cannot (obviously and quite rightly) consent to sexual activity, how can they possibly consent to the (damaging and invasive) alteration of their sexual parts - chemically or with surgery.

My mum was and still is a "tomboy". I wouldn't be born if she'd been told she was actually a boy and had her female parts removed. But she is a wonderful mum and incredible wife to my dad... It makes me feel sick.

random my concern with your terminology is that being biologically female is the only thing that makes me a woman.

If you're changing the definition of woman to mean things other than that - what's the new definition please? Because I think we can all agree gender stereotypes are harmful and need to be broken down, don't we?

@AssignedMentalAtBirth

I'm suggesting that people on a discussion forum could do with being polite around a group of people they don't know.

Mumsnet Talk Guidelines state:

"We'd appreciate it if you could use the same courtesy when posting messages on Talk as you would use when speaking to someone face to face."

This isn't unique to mumsnet - most forums would say the same.

I had no idea transpeople couldn't orgasm. That's awful:(

Yy mine

I was a bit of a tomboy growing up too. Could he found up a tree or collecting bugs or rollerskatonh etc

I wanted to play football and rugby Too, owned virtually no pink only ever wore skirts to school as girls weren't allowed trousers. Which by the way I made clear wasn't fair/right.

I hated barbies and dolls I wanted handheld games and remote control cars.

I dont feel male or female I just feel like me.

If a child cannot (obviously and quite rightly) consent to sexual activity, how can they possibly consent to the (damaging and invasive) alteration of their sexual parts - chemically or with surgery

Excellent point confoozled

Random is pushing the 'Feelings are more important than facts' agenda, which is partly one of the reasons we are in this mess now.

So NO, I will not be bullied into your bullshit ideology.

@Walkingtowork - where am I doing that? I'm not saying "call somebody by their chosen gender", I'm saying if it bothers you, use the wide breadth of the English language to avoid gendered pronouns altogether.

Surely the puberty blockers should be just that? A means to put puberty on hold for a few years until the person involved is an adult and able to take a mature, fully informed decision?

Trans was not a thing when I grew up and I don't hear of any of my generation now looking to transition later in life - so I am unsure about where these vast increases in trans numbers are coming from. If genuinely they are coming from parents believing their pre pubescent children then that is alarming. It's one thing to allow kids to dress as the opposite sex and to assume that role in creative play. It's another altogether to assume that the 7 year old girl who will only wear football kits and who insists on being known as the male version of her name - genuinely wants to grow up male.

Random, I'm sure you're coming from a kind place, but we are talking about the mutilation of a child and you are worrying about pronouns?

@AssignedMentalAtBirth

I'm pushing the "be polite to your fellow human beings" agenda.

random79 Fri 28-Jul-17 14:38:51

So use their name/surname or group descriptor.
transwomans' penises
Again, avoidable. Requires a tiny modicum of thought

The trans community cannot agree what is or is not offensive;

Why is writing trans woman/man as a single word offensive?
www.quora.com/Why-is-writing-trans-woman-man-as-a-single-word-offensive

www.cristanwilliams.com/b/2013/07/17/transwomans-vs-trans-woman/

I'm saying if it bothers you, use the wide breadth of the English language to avoid gendered pronouns altogether

He is used to denote males, she to denote males. Sex not gender. Jazz is male, Manning is Male. They may identify as transwomen, and that is of course their choice and should not be condemned, but they are male.

FlowerFairyLights

Well the 80% of late transitioning men who keep their dicks certainly can orgasim. And frequently demand that lesbians suck them. But the young girls and boys who have hormones and surgery and who are on medicines for the rest of their lives cannot. Guess which group is pushing this agenda? The late transitioning men, most of whom do not have body dysmorphia but autogynphellia, which means they get off on being a woman and enjoy the 'humiliation' of being a women. Nice

@Atenco

The point is that having the hostile language in here is going to stop people discussing it. Because a number of people don't care about people transitioning as adults particularly but may well share your concerns about children transitioning.

At the end of the day, people will read this thread and they won't see "I am concerned about X", they will see "oh it's the anti-trans lot again". You are blunting your message by it.

I don't think children should have changes made that are fundamentally irreversible, and I think most people would agree with that. But if you want to make sure that doesn't happen here you are going to have to gain allies who don't necessarily agree with you on all points.

Random

Yeh it's all about the politeness. Not the child abuse happening above. You need to sort your priorities out

Like when people have subjects like "to not allow boys in the girl's changing room" - it's intentionally goady. Why not just put say "to not allow transexuals in the girl's changing room" - it's perfectly clear then and it's a more nuanced debate.

No, it is not goady, it is factually correct.

If you write "transsexuals" no one will know whether female or male transsexuals are meant, and most people are going to assume it is about female transsexuals in the girl's changing room, because clearly, only female-sexed people have any business being there.

Most people who have never heard of it before assume that "transwoman" = female. That's normal use of language - women are female, a female adult is a woman.

You want to obscure the facts.

I refuse to do that. A male is a male is a male. And 13 year old human female is a girl. Regardless of what kind of thoughts she has in her head.

You wouldn't insist on people writing "13 year old who considers herself terribly ugly has rhinoplasty" to enable people to justify it to themselves before even reading the thread, would you?

So why would one have to mention what sort of thoughts the 13 year old in question has when they are about transgenderism?