To think a double masectomy for a 13 yr old girl is child abuse

[AssignedMentalAtBirth]

twitter.com/peepartist/status/890693730126188544

All the adults in this girl's life have failed her.

It's truly sickening

This is Texas, coming here soon

That's what I meant when I wondered whether or not the puberty blockers arrest brain development. Or maturity. She comes across as incredibly young. Like an 11-year-old...

Some children are more immature than others. I don't think it has to be brain development being arrested by the puberty blockers.

I mean, I am pretty sure that, while I was very immature in other respects, at age 8 I would not have believed that one can literally become the other sex.

Jazz was sheltered from rational thinking; I think that alone could have had such an effect.

Not saying that puberty blockers don't arrest brain development. But I think in this case, the upbringing is to blame for a lot of it.

Knowledge just accumulates with time, if one is not prevented from gathering it.

That said, Jazz probably believes that PiV is the only way people can have sex. There's a lot of men who actually don't look at the vaginas they stick their dicks into. I feel that's part of the whole problem.
Lots of men aren't actually attracted to women, but to femininity. Jazz might even find a boyfriend. Not a nice, caring, or respectful boyfriend, but one who wants to stick his dick into some kind of hole that has frilly femininity attached.

'Christian values'

Helen Webberley a private doctor in Wales who sterilised a 12-year-old girl is being investigated. She has had to suspend her practice after prescribing hormones resulting from a 17 second assessment.

Needless to say, she gets rave reviews from the online trans-community.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/39520785

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/11/transgender-nhs-doctor-prescribing-sex-hormones-children-uk

"This child has always been a boy, never worn a dress, always played with boys."

Mermaids - Who are consulted on all things trans says it should be based on maturity, rather than age. Which sounds promising, until you realise the head of Mermaids took her own underage son to Thailand have a genital surgery. I believe when she says maturity, she means she wants to reduce the legal age, if they are 'mature' enough to decide.

I have no doubt that the parents of children with gender dysphoria need strong support. But I profoundly believe that the first port of call should be therapy, not hormones.

I'd guess that a large number of us on here would have chosen to opt out if we could?

Certainly. I think I'd have jumped on the chance to use puberty blockers. I never planned to do anything but grow up into a woman and become a badass feminist, but delaying puberty? Not having to deal with breasts when I had no intention of having babies for at least a decade? I'd have wanted that.
And the dangers aren't at all talked about. Not those of puberty blockers, not those of testosterone (which is massively more harmful to the female body than estrogen is to males).

Wow I can't imagine any decent parent taking their minor child to Thailand for genital surgery. Presumably that is because there are few medical laws there to oversee things?

"Adult women are denied sterilisations routinely, just on the off chance that they possibly might change their minds"

It's even worse than that.

There was a thread on here from a young woman who already had three children and had very good reasons for wanting to be sterilised. One poster, who was a doctor, explained that the reason for the refusal was that early sterilisation brings on a lot of future medical problems.

@AssignedMentalAtBirth

I'm not suggesting you refer to a girl as "he", which I imagine would deeply offend you. I'm suggesting that in company that might disagree with you it is possible to use terminology that is less offensive.

Your suggestion of the offensiveness of not being able to refer to people in a way that is offensive to them (and to others) seems straight out of a racist complaining he can't use the N word. Are you so blind you can't see that?

Also, if more of you carefully read, you could perhaps realise I didn't say "you must call them their chosen gender", I said that in many cases you can use a non gender specific pronoun. Not rocket science, not hard. I'm sure many of you would get offended if somebody talked about company owners and used the phrase "he" automatically.

"To think it's child abuse to remove the breasts of a 13 year old transitioning girl (FTM)" would have been perfectly understood by most people. You could then in your OP have said

"All the adults in this child's life have failed them."

Why is that hard? How does it shut down debate? It doesn't force you to say things you don't believe and it avoids being rude to people who might have a different viewpoint to you.

I'm pretty sure many of you would be offended by similarly gendered speech being used, and expect men to change their language (rightly), so why is this magically different? Politeness doesn't hurt.

Yeah I would have done it as a route out of sexual abuse. I reckon that's a lot more common in tifs than anyone will be willing to admit.

Btw Random, the term transsexual is not one the trans community is down with these days. Mind yourself if you're using it on twitter, I've seen some pretty vile abuse aimed at people who get it wrong online.

I would use pronouns as a courtesy, face-to-face. I disagree profoundly with using them to describe this situation. They give the impression that a pronoun can carry something other than a description of one's sex.

'Her penis'
'His vagina'

The reason they are so insistent upon it because the language obscures the reality. After a while, her penis starts to sound relatively normal.

Then you get lesbian with a penis.

This is exactly where it goes off the rails for me. Lesbian is a word that is defined by being the female sex. Not gender. There is no such thing as a male lesbian.

Otherwise the word lesbian is meaningless. And lesbians are pretty fucked off about that, I can tell you.

Wow I can't imagine any decent parent taking their minor child to Thailand for genital surgery. Presumably that is because there are few medical laws there to oversee things?

How does that even work? I mean do you just keep flying back to Thailand for the follow ups?

What happens when the medications or whatever are banned or unable to he obtained in the UK when you get back?

What even happens with legalities with the passport?

What happens when you are too sick to travel back home and the money has run out?

It is possible that Lupron (puberty blockers) impacts on brain development as that is a key stage of puberty, however until very recently Lupron was not used long term so there's no evidence either way.

However there is a mass class action from women who took Lupron short term to treat precocious puberty as children because the long term side effects include severe osteoporosis (women report having to have hip and knee replacements in their early 20s), arthritis and other joint issues. There's also a statistically significant increase in depression and other mental health issues amongst these women, although it's a lot trickier to attribute this to Lupron than the physical side effects.

I hated being a girl growing up, I was a boy

Same here Namechange

I so much wanted to be a boy. But now I'm glad I'm not - not that there's anything wrong with being male, just that I am glad to be who I am and what I am.

Many of us take a while to grow into ourselves.

Random
I am normally polite and I did say I would probably use the preferred pronouns as a courtesy although I won't if they are aggressive and threatening, which many of the TRAs are.

I will not refer to 'her penis' and other such nonsense. And a lesbian can never have a penis. I'm all for politeness, sure. But I'm not going to lie because the facts are hurtful. I'm not going to lie because someone compels me to. That's the road to tyranny.

@Datun

Their penis
Their vagina

random, why does it have to be mentioned that the girl identifies as trans?
What difference would it make?

I can guess what difference it makes: Genderists, who are otherwise reasonable people, are horrified by the title, and come on the thread to agree, and then have to actually think about how they can justify it being done to girls who have certain gender thoughts in their heads, when they are horrified by it being done to girls in general.

People having to think is not a bad thing.

And the only people who are offended by it are those who hold views they cannot justify when they have to think about them.

Looking up the long term side effects of Lupron - this is what children being given puberty blockers are sentenced to before you even get to cross sex hormones which cause sterility:

"The women reported a wide range of symptoms: 30 percent cited severe joint pain, 29 percent, severe body aches; 26 percent, cracking teeth; and 20 percent reported osteoporosis. More than half reported moderate to life-threatening depression. Fifteen percent of the women rated their suicidal thoughts as life-threatening to severe."

Random

Their penis
Their vagina
No, sorry because these genitals a sex based not gender based. To say otherwise means I am accepting this bullshit ideology. And I won't

The surgery and hormones also means that these children will never have an orgasm. Never have a mutually satisfying sex life. It's like some bizarre form of anti-gay 'therapy' that is being sanctioned, even praised, by the so called SJWs.

When I was 15, my doctor wouldn't allow me to go on the Pill because he said that it wasn't a good idea to have such a large amount of hormones. (Idiot). I have been told I can only be on HRT for a limited time because of possible dangers. yet these children will be on hormones for what twenty thirty even forty years? Does anyone know what side effects they will have?

This person doesn't seem confused though. They seem thrilled and happy.

This person is 13 years old Clips.

When I was 13 my ambition was to have a pet rat and have my enormous nose cut off! It is a time of great confusion and change. I haven't ever got a rat (still slightly hankering) nor have I had a rhinoplasty (rather like my nose now - it's not small but it's got character and as I've grown older I look more and more like my lovely grannie, whosnose I inherited ).

Children are children - they do and want things that aren't necessarily appropriate for them. It take adults/parents to hold them back from their excesses until they are old enough to appreciate the repercussions and make an informed decision.

Often those decisions are not popular with the children involved. Tough! Being a parent means making the best decision for your child, not the easy one.

In 5/ 10/ 15 years, this girl may be equally happy with her choice - or she may not. It will be interesting to see whether young people who have undergone similar surgery will begin suing parents and doctors for allowing them to undergo the knife.

You Google away and let me know the results Vestal, it would be interesting to see the stats on this.

Genitals are sex based, not gender based. (sausage fingers)

random79

Sorry, you will be considered transphobic if you didn't say her penis.

I can see you are trying to find a neutral ground. And I understand.

However, that ship has sailed. Neutral is transphobic.

Its pointless taking it out on people like me, take it up with transactivists.

Seriously, Random? You read a thread about a vulnerable child having her healthy breasts removed - and your first reaction is not one of horror and concern, but to call people bigots for referring to her as a girl?

@VestalVirgin Because it's basically about transitioning. The aim of writing the title like the OP did is to actually hide the fact it's about transitioning - basically like a clickbait headline in the Daily Mail.

Like when people have subjects like "to not allow boys in the girl's changing room" - it's intentionally goady. Why not just put say "to not allow transexuals in the girl's changing room" - it's perfectly clear then and it's a more nuanced debate.

Let's put it this way, by using the trolling, bigoted terms you are pushing away those people who have no problem with adult transitioning, but are unhappy with the thought of children transitioning. You are pushing away potential allies and people who will agree with you on this issue.

Just checked and the Foreign Office says that the top private hospitals in Thailand are up to western standards. But what happens with after care for this child? It seems a big physical risk. And presumably you only take a child to Thailand for genital surgery, because Drs refuse to do it in the UK. From what I have read the top Thai hospitals charge twice the cost of procedures in the UK. So this is not about wanting to save money. This is about bypassing the protections offered in the UK. In the UK even if you are going private, it has to be ethically agreed that the procedure should be carried out. And that is in place to protect people, especially vulnerable children.
I had never read about this before and I am appalled