Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a double masectomy for a 13 yr old girl is child abuse

298 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 28/07/2017 12:01

twitter.com/peepartist/status/890693730126188544

All the adults in this girl's life have failed her.

It's truly sickening

This is Texas, coming here soon

OP posts:
ChiefClerkDrumknott · 28/07/2017 13:30

Datun I watched the episode of I Am Jazz where Jazz found out about the surgery and the fact that there isn't enough there to make a neo-vagina. It was horrifying and heartbreaking at the same time, the kid should never have been placed on puberty blockers as nobody had seemed to consider this outcome and poor Jazz is being used like a test run Sad

usernamenottaken · 28/07/2017 13:30

We should have much tighter rules on transitioning.

There should be a minimum age, amount of time living as the other gender, along with extensive psychological testing to make sure the person is of sound capacity.

Not against transgender people, but I do think that more & more people are jumping into it without doctors evaluating the psychology behind it.

Stoprightnowplease · 28/07/2017 13:32

Thanks VestalVirgin, I had no idea. I find it so unbelievable.

VestalVirgin · 28/07/2017 13:35

*"Many girls to whom this is done are from Christian extremist families".
Can you provide your source for this Vestal? *

I would have to google, it is an observation I made reading a couple of articles and blogs.

Transgendered people mentioning they grew up in such families, or families with rigid gender stereotypes transing their toddlers, that soft of thing.

So, I can't name any percentage or anything, but it makes sense that the more rigid the gender roles you experience while growing up, the more real gender feels to you, and the more convinced you'll be that you have to change your body, as going against the social expectations doesn't seem to be an option.

There's also the fact that Iran encourages homosexuals to get "gender reassignment" surgery so they fit into the society. (Homosexuality is illegal, but males are allowed to compete in women's sports)

Or, for an example closer to home: Ireland. Frowns on contraception, bans abortion, but has full on gender laws.

"Christian values", imho, are what brought us this. The whole shit originated in the US, after all.

Tilapia · 28/07/2017 13:36

This is just not right Sad

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 28/07/2017 13:37

I strongly suspect poor Jazz won't be on TV for much longer Sad

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 28/07/2017 13:39

Vestal
""Christian values", imho, are what brought us this."

I agree but I don't think it's just that. The 'progressive' identity politics bollocks is also responsible for putting identity above science or reason. And the SJWs who police and punish anyone who steps out of line

OP posts:
VestalVirgin · 28/07/2017 13:39

4thwavenow.com is a good resource if you want to know more about the effects of puberty blockers and hormones on children.

Mummyoflittledragon · 28/07/2017 13:41

Vestal

That is very interesting. And very sad.

VestalVirgin · 28/07/2017 13:42

I agree but I don't think it's just that. The 'progressive' identity politics bollocks is also responsible for putting identity above science or reason

Yes, I agree, totally. There's a lot of things that play into it.

But I really don't think the genderism movement is an antithesis of "Christianity" as practised in the US.

The fact that genderist's worst slur is "TERF" (short for trans exclusive radical feminist), not "TEDC" (trans exclusive devout Christian) is a hint ... they sure know who the their worst enemy is, and it is neither Christians nor is it homophobic violent males.

Pallisers · 28/07/2017 13:43

I can't get my head around the doctors who performed this surgery. Surely their risk of being sued in the future is enormous. A 13 year old can't possibly consent to this.

Datun · 28/07/2017 13:44

ChiefClerkDrumknott

I can't bring myself to watch it. I find the whole larking around, banter side of it rather sickening, if I'm honest.

From the trailer I did see Jazz seemed utterly shocked about the state of her male genitals. The fact that her doctor is her mum's own cousin was not lost on me either.

It's as though Jazz was under the impression that they could actually change sex, and everything that entails.

I understood she was asking her parents quite how much of a vagina a man sees when he's having sex with a woman. Presumably because she's worried that it won't look right?

I gather her dad was embarrassed to answer.

But what struck me, forcibly, was it the sort of reaction one might expect when a child says something like what's an orgasm? Or what is sperm? A straightforward question about sex education.

Not asking your dad how much of your mum's vagina he sees because you're worried that your surgically created vagina might deter boyfriends.

That's what I meant when I wondered whether or not the puberty blockers arrest brain development. Or maturity. She comes across as incredibly young. Like an 11-year-old...

Not a 17-year-old who understands the lifelong implications of being permanently sterile, always on hormones, no libido, limited sexual function, and having to decide between the penis of a child, or a bodged job vagina. With no clitoris.

Sorry.

I find this unbelievable. And I'm not using that word lightly.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 28/07/2017 13:50

It's tragic Datun. Those poor children are being butchered in the name of being 'progressive'. History is going to judge us all on this

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 28/07/2017 13:52

Surely their risk of being sued in the future is enormous

I think they cover themselves pretty well through the consent forms...

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/consent-form-from-a-private-uk-gender-clinic/amp/

uktrans.info/medical/54-medication-resources/193-informed-consent-form

VestalVirgin · 28/07/2017 13:52

I can't get my head around the doctors who performed this surgery. Surely their risk of being sued in the future is enormous.

That's an interesting question. I don't think the doctors doing it will be sued in the future; there are so many of them, I am sure they can blame the government.

Perhaps 4thwavenow has something about that. Doctors, all in all, don't seem very worried!

Some in the UK are covering their asses, though:

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/consent-form-from-a-private-uk-gender-clinic/

Naturally, their patient base complain that they have to sign this - not because they suddenly realized how irresponsible it is, but because they'd rather be operated on without having to confirm that they know about the dangers.

terrylene · 28/07/2017 13:54

There does not seem to be any evidence base for the safety and outcomes of transition operations on young people. It is all an experiment. Older people may have more realistic expectations for the results and happier with some sort of bodge. Young people are just starting out and less experienced with what is on off in the world, and will have a long time to live with the consequences.

random79 · 28/07/2017 13:55

I think one of the things is, that whatever your views on transexuals, the reason people call people like many people on this thread "transphobic" is that they're basically exceptionally rude and unpleasant about it.

Would it really kill many of you to put "trans" in the thread title? Or perhaps, instead of ignoring somebody's chosen gender and using the one they don't identify with - perhaps just use "they"? Or using child instead of "girl" (for somebody who has wanted to transition). We have non-gendered pronouns, why not use them?

Because frankly, that is what marks many of you out to me as bigots. It's not hard, it avoids unnecessary offence and it doesn't hurt your point in any way.

Not that I should need to say it, but
a) I'm not trans
b) From an uneducated viewpoint, I'm not a fan of pre-adult transition.

derxa · 28/07/2017 13:55

Poor kids.

Walkingtowork · 28/07/2017 13:55

At age 12 or so, I would have jumped at the chance not to grow up into a woman (though the idea of growing up to be a man was completely alien).

Girls see how women are treated in society, and that plus the thought of periods, let alone childbirth, can be very frightening.

I'd guess that a large number of us on here would have chosen to opt out if we could?

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 28/07/2017 13:56

Datun I agree with everything you just wrote. The episode where Jazz finds out happened to be on when I turned the TV on. I didn't want to watch but was too gobsmacked to turn over. I have nothing but compassion for the poor kid who's been lied to about what was going to happen and deluded in to thinking they really could change sex. It doesn't even seem as though Jazz has much of an understanding what a female body looks like or how they work. It's as if Jazz has been sold a dream of what it's like but the reality has been skipped over...

Gileswithachainsaw · 28/07/2017 13:56

I think even adults often struggle with decisions regarding surgery. Certainly many threads on here asking for advice or for things to be explained.

If even routine surgery requires adults to go away and research the possible risks etc then how can a 13 yr old really give informed consent

GardenGeek · 28/07/2017 13:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

derxa · 28/07/2017 14:00

Even from the point of view that these children should be enjoying life as children. Not having to think about sexuality. Having their reproductive and nurturing ability taken away at such a young age actually sickens me.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 28/07/2017 14:04

Random
"Would it really kill many of you to put "trans" in the thread title? Or perhaps, instead of ignoring somebody's chosen gender and using the one they don't identify with - perhaps just use "they"? Or using child instead of "girl" (for somebody who has wanted to transition). We have non-gendered pronouns, why not use them?"

So now we are being compelled to speak a certain way as we as think a certain way? Compelled speech is the road to totalitarianism. I may use someone's gender preferred pronouns as a courtesy to their face, but I am am not going to be compelled to say that natally female child is male. Because it is not true and I won't be compelled to tell lies. And this is just one of the many problems with this regressive bullshit

OP posts:
Walkingtowork · 28/07/2017 14:06

And talking about a boy having is breasts cut off makes no sense - we have to be able to describe the issue

Swipe left for the next trending thread