To think nursery isn't *better* for children?

[Anon8604]

I'm part of an NCT group, all of the babies are around a year old. Parents have made a variety of decisions about work and childcare, some back to work full time, some part time and some not returning to work. The babies whose parents are working are all in nursery for between 3 and 5 days a week.

Lately there have been lots of conversations about how the babies are getting on at nursery. Obviously it's great that they are mostly settling in well, but I've felt like some of the comments have bordered on implying that nursery is better than staying at home. FWIW, I think different choices work for different families, not that one is better than the other.

The comments have been stuff like:

"She does so many activities at nursery, way more than you could ever do at home. It's really good for her development, I think she'd miss out on stuff if I kept her at home."

"It's better for them to socialise at an early age. You could always tell the school kids who didn't go to nursery cause they'd stand around at break times on their own."

"Her language is streets ahead compared to a couple of months ago, there's no way she'd have come on so much without nursery."

"It's really hard settling them in, but having an example of a working mum is worth it. I want them to know you have to work for things in life."

AIBU to think they're being a bit judgemental about the people who've chosen to stay home? I feel like if someone said something comparable about staying at home (like they think their child does better with one to one attention or something) then it'd be seen as judging those who are choosing to use a nursery, but somehow criticising people who aren't using nursery seems to be more acceptable?

Ultimately everyone chooses the best thing for their situation. Sometimes they might feel guilt about it and be seeking to justify it. Sometimes they might be thrilled about it and want to tell everyone how great being a SAHM/their particular childminder/nursery/nanny is. I don't think there's anything wrong with either of these.

What actually is shitty, is putting down other people's decisions, especially on something as important as childcare or their careers. We never know the ins and outs of someone else's situation even if we like to think we do and tell ourselves we would never do that.

What actually is shitty, is putting down other people's decisions, especially on something as important as childcare or their careers.

This

It's just occured to me that I sometimes rave about how great our nanny is and how she does all sorts of things I would never think of (she's very creative; I am not). I've even said this to friends who stay at home .

I truly hope they have never assumed I am justifying my choices out of guilt (there is none) or, even worse, that I am somehow judging their choices (I think they are brilliant parents and I sometimes think it would be lovely to be at home...)

On the other hand they are sane non-judgemental people, happy with their lives. So Probably not!

There is nothing judgemental about saying you love your nanny and that she does all sorts of creative things with your kids you would never even think of. You would come across as a bit odd if you said a nanny was essential to maximise your child's development, though, and that a child's development is stunted by spending too much time with their parents, or by spending too much time in a nursery with other children.

It's just occured to me that I sometimes rave about how great our nanny is and how she does all sorts of things I would never think of

That's fine - I can't see how anybody would take offence at that. If you were to over analyse that, you are, in effect, implicitly being critical of yourself rather than of the person to whom you are saying it. As roundabout says, it'd be different were you saying "it's so great having a nanny as it's so developmentally advantageous for children to have a strong attachment to a caregiver who isn't a parent" (or something!)

I'm very old, nurseries weren't a thing when I was little. Could read and write before I started school, not perfectly but well enough. Both my boys went to nursery. Can't say they were reading or writing, but they loved being there. Social more than learning possibly. Can't say they've turned out much different as adults to me. If the home environment is good, not sure it matters either way. But if it's poor, of course it will help to have a few hours a day with trained staff and peer group. So I wouldn't worry. It all works out in the end!

Ha ha, let them convince themselves! A nursery provides care but ratio isn't 1:1 which is what you give. Everyone is so competitive about their babies progress and this is just another one of those things. Round here kids start nursery school from about 2 and a half. People were shocked that mine didn't start until three and I didn't start until I was over five. I only sent mine because we were starting to annoy each other. We had loads of fun going to all the stuff that is free for under threes instead. I got the same competitive conversations from 0-3 about nursery, baby Einstein, potty training etc but now I have the smug satisfaction of seeing my dd SATs results, and her school report regarding her speech and reading, and know that she's definitely excelling despite having "missed out" on being sent to nursery. Sounds more like they're trying to persuade themselves that it's ok to put their baby in nursery to me!

I wouldn't say it's guilt at all. I work two days a week and genuinely think dd has more fun and does more activities on those days. The time we have together is precious and lovely in different ways, lots of relaxation and cuddles and quiet playing but the days she goes to childcare she's out in the garden (we don't have one) playing with water, sand, has access to loads of toys and musical instruments that I don't have. She's socialising with the other children and picking up skills and when I come to get her she's very happy and very exhausted. I genuinely think she's better off with both time with me and time there. No guilt whatsoever.

I understand where you are coming from OP (and I'm not a sahm) and I don't think you started this thread to goad people.

I think we can all be guilty of justifying our decisions when we have no need to. What is right for one is not right for another. I think there is a lot of guilt from everyone and there shouldn't be. We are all just doing our best.

Be a good person, smile and know that your decision for your child is right. But if they are that mean either say something or bin them off. Life is too short.

Pollymere A bright child will always be a bright child though. Regardless of whether or not my child went to nursery, I would be surprised if they weren't doing extremely well in school simply because of their genes. I don't need to "persuade" myself that it was OK for my DD to go to nursery, I know for a fact that it was the best thing for her and best thing for both of her parents, neither of whom were going to stop working yo provide full time childcare.

I wouldn’t get too worked up about it tbh. I couldn't care less whether my friends kids are in nursery or not as long as they are well looked after. The only thing I do feel is a little worried for anyone becoming a SAHP because they are incredibly vulnerable. However, I would never say this out loud and sometimes circumstances mean having a SAHP is the only option or the right option for their family.

I went back to work when my daughter was just 3. She is at nursery from 7.30-5.30 daily. I feel guilty as hell (mainly because we can easily afford for me to not work but I find being at home all day fairly dull. Not trying to be goady in any way but this explains why I feel guilty). I justify it to myself more than anyone but truly I would say that she'd be better off at home with me and going to a preschool 3 hours a day 5 mornings a week. So to try and make myself not feel like a bad parent who wants to get away from her kid, I tell myself and anyone else who listens that nursery is great etc etc. It is great - mine does Spanish, cooking, playball etc etc. - but I would say that nothing beats being cared for by a parent.

All human beings are vulnerable. Saying you are worried about SAHPs because they are incredibly vulnerable, as though they are all too stupid to work out what the risks are and how to minimise them to a point where they are personally happy with them is as offensive and irritating as saying you worry about children being away from their parents all day every day in nurseries, because they are incredibly vulnerable. Stop trying to disguise your judgements as concern for others' welfare!

OhhBetty I know what you mean about vulnerable, although I'd never say that to anyone. The biggest piece of advice my mum ever gave me was not to put myself in a position where I was financially reliant on a man, and I've always taken that to heart although my relationship with DH is very solid.

The biggest piece of advice my mum ever gave me was not to put myself in a position where I was financially reliant on a man, and I've always taken that to heart

Good for you. The biggest piece of advice I received was to make the most of my time with my children as they aren't small for very long. I took that to heart. Like the nursery question, just the flip side of a similar coin.

Natalia good for you. Really, not sarcastically. It's okay for us to make our own decisions and be happy with them.

Accrual I agree. In fact, as I sort of said upthread, I find all this comparing and judging a bit daft, in as much as everyone has her own, individual life and makes her own decisions on the basis of that. People make the best decisions for their families on their own terms. In different situations, they may make different decisions. Judgement is rather pointless!

It is hard not to compare though, when the minute your child is born they are scored for normality (APGAR) weighed for normality fairly frequently in the first months of life, and then their development is also compared to a 'normal / not normal' checklist.

If you've had a child who has 'failed' any of those measurements, it can be very hard not to get into the habit of comparison

It's interesting how big a role either guilt or worry about other people's expectations obviously play in this. For instance, the point a few people made about WOHPs saying they can't afford to give up work, but this actually meaning they need to work to afford a far more expensive lifestyle than many SAHPs have. My friend has made comments like this to me, saying she's jealous that I can stay at home but they just couldn't afford it. I felt bad for her, but they've just put in an offer on a gorgeous house in one of the most expensive areas round here, so I do think what she actually means is they can't have the standard of living they're used to without two full time salaries. That is obviously a perfectly valid decision, but it does make me wonder if she feels like she has to pretend they'd be on the breadline if she gave up work because she thinks she'll be judged for not working.

I'm always intrigued by the dichotomy that we require our nursery workers to have degrees yet mothers who have degrees and look after their children full-time are wasting their education!

Could not agree more with this! A relative said something to me recently about how much I'd spent on my education, implying that it's a waste if I don't focus exclusively on developing a career. Infuriating! And yes, all the "I need to work to use my brain" says more about the person saying it than anything else. Even when I've worked full time I never struggled to find interesting and intellectually challenging things to do in my free time so the idea that you have to work or your brain will turn to mush is just bizarre.

What actually is shitty, is putting down other people's decisions, especially on something as important as childcare or their careers. We never know the ins and outs of someone else's situation even if we like to think we do and tell ourselves we would never do that.

Yes, agree with this completely too!

Thanks lovingit, for not assuming I started this thread to goad people! Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've had a great relationship with my NCT group and I wanted to get some other people's perspectives on these comments to help me work out how best to react to them. I feel I understand more what might be driving them now, and I definitely feel more inclined to just smile and nod (unless they're actively being unkind) then get on with what works for our family.

Betty, the vulnerability thing is an interesting one, but I have to say that for me if I focused on not being vulnerable in these situations it would completely undermine my relationship. Having children leaves you vulnerable - what would you do if you split from your child's other parent and they used contact with the child to make your life miserable? What would you do if you split and they fled the country to avoid paying maintenance, thus leaving you to support your DC entirely alone? Having a joint mortgage or tenancy leaves you vulnerable - what would happen if your DH or DP decided they wanted to sell up and you didn't want to? I think if you're in a happy relationship then being vulnerable to each other is unavoidable and is in many ways a positive thing.

Do you think dads have these conversations over a beer at the pub?!!! I never quite understood why women feel the need to be justify their decisions in lives through horrid remarks.

Op- None of this will matter in years to come! I've seen it from both sides of the coin.

My little one is at nursery full time because I earn a hell lot more than dp and I want us to continue to have a good quality of life, hence , I had to go back to work full time ( part time isn't an option in my career) It works for us , won't work for everyone!

We have a family friend who stayed home with her dd until she was 8 and she's super intelligent. She could read by 2 and had an iq of a 5 year old by the age of 2! Her mom invested ALOT of her time into her . She looked tired every time and see her and would make huge sacrifices to her social life just to give her daughter stability and routine. Alot of people love the output but wouldn't invest the effort and time that she has! Each to their own!

My friend and I have a babies same age and I only bf for 3 months , she's still breastfeeding (18months) and would constantly sing out and boast about her bf baby to me! We visited recently and she saw how advanced my lo is to hers and ever since then she hasn't "reminded" me about how special it is to bf.

I do think that when the kids are older, none of this will matter . Make the best decisiaons for your life and your family's ... make it work and be Happy !

'We visited recently and she saw how advanced my lo is to hers and ever since then she hasn't "reminded" me about how special it is to bf.'

Luckily you weren't comparing though, eh...

DH has these discussions with his colleagues and friends, yes of course!

He also feels judged that we are such a 'traditional' family tbh, and feels guilty about the impact on my career.

I can't imagine childcare not being a topic of discussion amongst them - it's a big part of any parents life and I would find it strange to know a man who wasn't fully involved in the choice of childcare for his kids.

OP- just discussing 'vulnerability' with my husband. I totally agree with you. Placing your faith in someone and having children necessarily leaves you vulnerable. This is to be human. I think people fight this because it means admitting we aren't in control. I think admitting vulnerability is liberating!
Seeing your spouse or partner as a potential enemy cannot be healthy.

I think I'm with those who say it's just an opinion. They are entitled to express it. You can express yours or not as you prefer.

My opinion is that both are great and gave advantages and disadvantages. The best in my view is some nursery mixed with a good chunk of time at home, whether that time is with a parent or another loving carer. But lots of different options and combos work well.

When I worked, I justified my choices to myself along the lines of what I've read here.

As a SAHM, I justify my choices in the same way.

I refused at those times, to read other information which opposed my choices.

MY DP didn't justify anything as he didn't see it as anything to do with him.