To think nursery isn't *better* for children?

[Anon8604]

I'm part of an NCT group, all of the babies are around a year old. Parents have made a variety of decisions about work and childcare, some back to work full time, some part time and some not returning to work. The babies whose parents are working are all in nursery for between 3 and 5 days a week.

Lately there have been lots of conversations about how the babies are getting on at nursery. Obviously it's great that they are mostly settling in well, but I've felt like some of the comments have bordered on implying that nursery is better than staying at home. FWIW, I think different choices work for different families, not that one is better than the other.

The comments have been stuff like:

"She does so many activities at nursery, way more than you could ever do at home. It's really good for her development, I think she'd miss out on stuff if I kept her at home."

"It's better for them to socialise at an early age. You could always tell the school kids who didn't go to nursery cause they'd stand around at break times on their own."

"Her language is streets ahead compared to a couple of months ago, there's no way she'd have come on so much without nursery."

"It's really hard settling them in, but having an example of a working mum is worth it. I want them to know you have to work for things in life."

AIBU to think they're being a bit judgemental about the people who've chosen to stay home? I feel like if someone said something comparable about staying at home (like they think their child does better with one to one attention or something) then it'd be seen as judging those who are choosing to use a nursery, but somehow criticising people who aren't using nursery seems to be more acceptable?

I think that will depend on the adults.If you have parents who spend time talking to their children, that will help their speech. If the parents largely ignore the kids, their speech will come on better being in childcare.

Very good point brasty
If kids are left to their own devices and ignored or left with screens, then they won't be articulate. Therefore these kids may do well to attend nursery.
For many kids school and nursery may be a break from a stressful home life.
In any case there are advantages and disadvantages to both

I do think a SAHP who loves being with young kids, and is a great parent, is better than paid childcare. But appreciate that because of illness, depression, or simply finding young children not fun to be around, that not everyone is that SAHP. My SIL threw herself into looking after her kids before they went to school, and genuinely seemed to love it. I personally can enjoy it a bit, but would have been very bored and frustrated in SIL shoes, and a much worse parent than she was.

It is one of the things that winds me up somewhat - when people say they think nursery is better for their child's language development in particular. I just think that is clearly either bollocks or you don't interract effectively with your own child and have abdicated far too much responsibility for parenting to someone else. Nobody who can speak and hold down employment themselves is too dim to know how to talk to their own child and thus enable their language development.

Nursery is just one of the options a parent can look into when they are unable to be there caring for their child in person all the time, usually due to work commitments. That really is all it is. To try to morph it in your mind into a necessary venue for ensuring your child develops to their full potential is just ludicrous in the extreme; infantilising of the parents; and it is an excuse not to bother to do as much in the home, if you are that way inclined, because you tell yourself all that stuff which helps your child develop, like talking to them and playing with them, has been covered already. Not liking messy play much when your child might quite enjoy it is one thing, genuinely believing your child's speech and language development will improve if you put them in a nursery, quite another.

So the best fit depends on the quality of the primary caregiver more than the child then perhaps.

Personally I think kids over three benefit from being with other kids for part of the day but younger kids benefit from being picked up and cuddled and thinking they are the only (and best kid) in the world.

But it has to fit the family and families can only do the best they can.

Arounaboutthetown Very well put.

The problem is the argument is always one sided eg, friend says she has to work and her dh has to work. They have...
Chosen to live in an expensive road in our area and have chosen to have major work on house. Ie yes they need to work to fund their choices. What do I say? We have equally chosen to live on a less desirable road, we would love an extension but have chosen to live without one, we would love more pricey holidays but we save and go on less expensive breaks, because we have chosen for me to stay at home with our dc whilst they are young! I wouldn't say it, I couldn't but it is galling sometimes. Another lady from nct made huge song and dance about crunching number, how they couldn't really afford no 2. How she had to get back to work... Are few months later it was clear she just hated to be with her dc alone, they constantly irritated her, and they made made huge house jump move too, to far more expensive area this was in between holidays to Barbados and Florida. It's galling to have to sit and listen too, why not just say, I don't want to be at hone with dc all day!! For those of us who make sacrifices and love according to cloth it's annoying to hear.

"For those of us who make sacrifices"?

You do realise that's infinitely more judgey than anything said in the OP?

I have two dc both at home with me until 3. One had normal language, one was slightly delayed, I spoke both of them same!! Both happy to run into play ground, parties and make friends. Not true the dc their friends from full time nursery. They are lost and shy clinging to mum. However that's just dc friends, I know other nursery kids will be different as dc are all different.

Compared to the people on my example yes, we are making sacrifices. We make the sacrifice to spend less on house, less on holidays because of the choices we make. I also feel this sort of strange twisting of facts really does a disservice to those who do genuinely have to work. Not because they want a ten grand Disney holiday but because they actually need to keep up rent payment and put food on the table.

One more thing, I find this idea that stay at home parents give their dc no interaction with other dc!! Not true, dc mix with others at soft play, classes, toddler groups, play ground etc etc etc!they are not sat watching mum iron and slave away, leaning how to be a handmaid!!

AMouseLived why do you hang around with these women you clearly despise? If it's so galling to listen to them?

And on and on this thread goes... it's depressing how judgemental parents are to other parents.

I was asking for perspective on my friends' comments, that's all!
It's not rocket science to understand it from both sides, you've just started a SAHP vs WOHP thread

It is odd to hear a WOHM say I have to work. When you know that clearly they don't, no one could have that car and that house and all that stuff and be that close to the poverty line. When they told you last week they own 70% equity in a £1m house, for example.

BUT the reason they say it (I think) is because people are so unbelievably judgy about prioritising your career. Why would you say 'I don't want to sacrifice my career' to a group of people who you know are likely to judge the fuck out of you.

It's like when SAHMs make excuses about an untidy home because busy making memories etc, barf. None of us mean it. It's just as a SAHM you are supposed to be house proud so instead of saying 'I can't be arsed to clean' you say 'oh I did clean but then little Tabitha wanted to express her individuality'....

It's all part of the little white lies that lubricate social situations, but unfortunately, because everything about motherhood gets judged so relentlessly whatever you say will annoy someone.

One on one, people don't say as many of these annoying trite things. But in group situations it all gets trotted out.

@NaomiCole my daughter's first key worker's grammar was terrible, and the updates in her diary frequently had spelling errors, but I overlooked it. Quite simply because in all other aspects of her job she is amazing! The children love her, she's such good fun, has them all laughing and smiling at drop off. She is always the one leading the singing, dancing and dressing up. The rapport she has with each child is incredible, and she absolutely goes above and beyond in her job supporting families. I'm over the moon to find out she's going to be my son's key worker soon! I'm sure I'll smile at some of her updates, but given the long hours mine do in nursery I focus on the quality of care they receive, rather than development. (And I say that as the mum of a now 3 year old who started nursery at 9 months and was very delayed in her speech. She suffered recurrent ear infections and glue ear, so the noisy environment of nursery didn't help as she struggled to make out words easily, but she got there in the end and as is a chatterbox now!)

I'm so pleased I did prioritise my career, as I'm going to have to work now until at least 68 before I can potentially draw a state pension. I hated dropping out for 4.5 months, let alone thinking about missing 4.5 years with the resulting set back that would have created.

DD was happy, had fun everyday and grew up in a very child-centred environment which she quite simply wouldn't have had at home. I would never have been willing to throw glitter around with abandon or research gloop recipes. Ironically, one of her carers, who still works in childcare, is exactly the same with her own toddler. He has a whale of a time at nursery with glue, glitter & bloop, but they don"t do any "nursery type" activities at home together.

We still tease another key worker about her absolute inability to spell brocolli/broccoli/broccolli...

Little white lies to lubricate social occasions?! Bollocks. It's perfectly acceptable to say you wanted to maintain your career, so went back to work. It would go down better than pretending it was to avoid destitution when you clearly have plenty of money to spare, or saying that it was necessary to give your child the best start in life, which any idiot could work out that carries an implied judgement of those who have different views on what the best start in life is. People say what they say for all sorts of reasons - some even believe what they are saying - but the sorts of comments that wind other people up are not best described as little white lies to aid social lubrication!

I'm always intrigued by the dichotomy that we require our nursery workers to have degrees yet mothers who have degrees and look after their children full-time are wasting their education!

I think the hierarchy in looking after a pre-3-yr-old is as follows:

1. Parent
2. Family member
3. Good childminder who provides a family environment
4. Nursery

To be honest, I don't think my post grad contained much on child development or early years education. I didn't want it to either.

What activities do your children do at nursery that you appreciate and which do you not? Some people rave about messy play and some don't for instance..

Do people say that mothers with degrees in early years education are wasting it by staying at home? That's a bit of a strange reaction if true.

It's all bullshit. My personal favourite is being told that someone has to go to work to "use their brain" - those women can fuck right off.

Most workers in nurseries do not have degrees. At most they have a childcare qualification.

I personally hate judgements on either side.

If I had to go out to work, and had to use childcare, then I would find all the positives I could find about my choices.

As I am self employed, I have always had the kids at home, with no need for nursery. I find the positives in this.

I could not and would not want to put any parent down for using childcare, by saying their children are unhappy/better off at home/develop differently etc - and at the same time I don't want anyone telling me that my child lacks social skills, and it's better for them to be away from me and will be more independent etc

A child in a loving home - nursery or stay at home - they'll be just fine.