To think nursery isn't *better* for children?

[Anon8604]

I'm part of an NCT group, all of the babies are around a year old. Parents have made a variety of decisions about work and childcare, some back to work full time, some part time and some not returning to work. The babies whose parents are working are all in nursery for between 3 and 5 days a week.

Lately there have been lots of conversations about how the babies are getting on at nursery. Obviously it's great that they are mostly settling in well, but I've felt like some of the comments have bordered on implying that nursery is better than staying at home. FWIW, I think different choices work for different families, not that one is better than the other.

The comments have been stuff like:

"She does so many activities at nursery, way more than you could ever do at home. It's really good for her development, I think she'd miss out on stuff if I kept her at home."

"It's better for them to socialise at an early age. You could always tell the school kids who didn't go to nursery cause they'd stand around at break times on their own."

"Her language is streets ahead compared to a couple of months ago, there's no way she'd have come on so much without nursery."

"It's really hard settling them in, but having an example of a working mum is worth it. I want them to know you have to work for things in life."

AIBU to think they're being a bit judgemental about the people who've chosen to stay home? I feel like if someone said something comparable about staying at home (like they think their child does better with one to one attention or something) then it'd be seen as judging those who are choosing to use a nursery, but somehow criticising people who aren't using nursery seems to be more acceptable?

It's not necessarily guilt - the "advanced development" part is probably deluded PFB-dom, but I did pick DS's nurseries based on the activities and outdooor space.

We live in a one-bedroom flat, and I genuinely can't provide the messy crafts and outside play that some of our local nurseries can. I wish I could. Both of us are going back to work PT so he will only be in nursery three days a week, and we will do as many activities with him on our days off as we can, but I can't magic up a nature garden and pet hens, or spanish language immersion (two different nurseries we looked at). We also don't have space for all they toys they have, or for him to do cooking in our tiny 2x1m galley kitchen.

If he has to go to nursery I might as well pick one with nice extras for him to enjoy. I do enthuse about the facilities, because if he was going to go to a small sad prefab in a car park (that's a real one we looked at too), I would be staying at home with him. I want to be excited about sending him there, not depressed.

I think regret drives those comments more than guilt. I absolutely baulked at that awful Guardian article. It was written the year my dh gave up his career to look after our dd. 11 years later and with three dc he's still at home while my career has flourished. But in my heart I wish it could have been me with them all the time. So I tell myself he's more creative than me and that they probably wouldn't have been so amazing if I'd stayed with them instead. Just sharing a different perspective.

I think perhaps they are trying to make themselves feel better about the baby being in nursery. I remember saying similar things myself. Now I am about to go through the whole return to work scenario for a second time, I feel differently about it. I think nursery is wonderful for my older child (aged 3) but wish I could be at home with my younger baby.

I'm the opposite. I drop my daughter to Pre-School and have to refrain from correcting her key worker's grammar. The only reason she goes is because I can't afford to not work. She would speak better, behave better and do more enriching activities with me.

Wow. I sound like one proper stuck up cow!!! But it's true!!! Ok, I'm a primary teacher so I know what she's going onto and how to get her there with maximum engagement but the grammar issue is such a big one for me.

Meh. Grumpy teacher! I'm two days into the holiday and talking shop!

So you are saying no-one actually said this at all, and you're just setting up a straw man to have a barney about? hmm

I was asking for perspective on my friends' comments, that's all!

I felt they were bordering on suggesting nursery is a better option. I was thinking it over and I do think that if I said similar about staying home I'd be criticised for suggesting nursery isn't a good choice.

For instance:

"She does so many activities at nursery, way more than you could ever do at home. It's really good for her development, I think she'd miss out on stuff if I kept her at home."
vs
"She goes to so many classes because I stay at home, way more than if she was in nursery. It's really good for her development. I think she'd miss out if I sent her to nursery."

"It's better for them to socialise at an early age. You could always tell the school kids who didn't go to nursery cause they'd stand around at break times on their own."
vs
"It's better for them to have a quiet calm environment when they're very young. You can tell the ones who go to nursery because they seem overstimulated and stressed."

"Her language is streets ahead compared to a couple of months ago, there's no way she'd have come on so much without nursery."
vs
"Her language is streets ahead since I started staying home with her. There's no way she'd have come on so much without the one to one attention I can give at home."

"It's really hard settling them in, but having an example of a working mum is worth it. I want them to know you have to work for things in life."
vs
"It's difficult for me to have taken time out of my career, but having the example of a mum who puts their needs first is worth it. I want them to know they are the most important thing to me."

(Note these aren't my views, I'm just playing out what the same comments sound like if directed at parents who use a nursery.)

I did not feel guilt about leaving my dcs at nursery from 1+ to go back to work. I felt relieved. I would not say any of those things in the OP - that is pretty insensitive to SAHMs and self-justifying.

Your dc will get to 8 and you won't give a flying flibbidy gibbet whether they went to nursery.

Honestly, just let it go. They do their thing, you do yours and accept that everyone is trying to do their best and generally if they say something its not to make you feel bad.

I'm an early years teacher & now a SAHP. So I can definitely see pros and cons to each side. I don't think it's easy to have a straight answer because it depends on many variables:

• The child- Their age, temperament, needs.

• The nursery environment- is it noisy, do the children have enough resources to choose from. Can the provision adequately meet all of the needs of the children- e.g some settings are great academically, but do not support children's emotional & social well-being very well at all.

• Nursery staffing- are they warm, loving, qualified, experienced people who genuinely enjoy their jobs? What are the ratios & group size like?

• The home situation/other pressures: financial stress, mental health, support network, preference/needs of each parent are all important valid reasons for people to either stay at home or go to work as it suits their individual family better overall.

Then of course other factors like how many hours the child is spending there per day, whether there is provision for them to go home if they are not coping or are very unhappy or unwell (many parents cannot always take time off)

So there is no easy answer, ever family situation is different & there are lots of factors to consider. A child might be in a less than idea nursery, but being there allows their family to put food on the table.

OP but SAHPs do say those kind of things all the time, usually to justify their reasons for giving up work or because they feel guilty about cutting their household income. (Please read my next sentence before ripping me to shreds!)

Do you see that the reason I've given above is a mirror image of the reasons given explaining why people say what they said in your OP? From the moment your child is born, you will waste time justifying every decision you make. Sometimes the comments will be a deliberate dig at other people, but usually they are simply made for something to talk about.

Everyone is thrown together when they have a small baby & they only have one topic of conversation. After a while, their lives start to change again and they start to express different opinions. This unsettles the group, as people start questioning their own decisions or see the comments as a direct challenge to what they are doing themselves. Things move on again and eventually everyone realises that people say things for the sake of it and it has no impact on their own parenting decisions. Soon you will all start agonising over which school to apply for or whether to have another child etc and it will all start again. Just accept that people have different views. They are not aired to offend anyone, simply to make conversation. That's what makes life interesting. However, if you & your chums fundamentally disagree with the comments made, you will soon find the group dynamics change and you won't need to listen to different views anyway.

I'm a SAHM and don't mind any of the opinions voiced on this thread. I had a great career before kids and am enjoying my second one at home with the children, so no regrets, no guilt and no worries re: what anyone else is up to! Maybe I'll feel differently in a few years when my friends' careers have soared to further heights, maybe not. I'm happy at the minute, anyway and it works for our family very well. If it didn't work for any of us, we'd look at doing things differently and plenty of my friends went back to work (some only weeks after birth).

I do agree with theycallmethewildrose - that the benefits of nursery can be easily replicated by a SAHP with a bit of effort and energy. We go to playgroups, singing/music sessions, the playground, meet up with friends and their kids, go for walks and generally play together at home quite a bit (drawing, reading books, playing with toys). Just depends whether your circumstances allow and whether you enjoy doing that kind of stuff, I suppose. Although what SAHPs do if they're NOT doing things like this is a bit of a mystery to me, tbh!

I wouldn't assume guilt (because doing that it's implicitly a working mums must feel they need to justify their decisions out of guilt because being at home is what's best for baby view).

I'll be honest, I'm not sure I'd be as organised as a nursery to have the same range of activities on offer each day. They clearly gain things from it.

When most women stayed at home you'd all go to baby toddler group etc and so nursery type things.

Only difference now is a desire by some on both sides to make themselves out to be parent of the century by knocking other people's choices.

It's called 'talking your own book' and we're all guilty of it to a degree.

I would say that it's not correct to just paint all working mothers as guilt-ridden to justify the comments.

The one about the wide range of activities is something I've said about my LO's nursery. But it didn't stem from me feeling guilty about working, it was because it was a fact.

Also, my LO's language has always come on in leaps & bounds and a significant part of that is nursery.

It's fine to think whatever you like about others who make different choices but on this particular thread, I absolutely do not agree with all the nursery comments stemming from a mother feeling guilty.

For what it's worth, this is precisely one of the reasons I could not be bothered with NCT during pregnancy/post-birth and beyond (not to mention the ridiculous cost).

Too much comparing, competing and second guessing/doubting selves due to looking at what others are doing.

I do like that phrase "talking your own book". Sums it up perfectly.

What turquoisedress said. The ease with which guilt is attributed (without recognising how very gendered that attribution is) - to mothers - many of whom like me, rightfully feel not a shred of guilt - is amazing. These are the things I do feel about my career and my life and my beautiful son - proud, happy, fulfilled, complete, satisfied, enthused, rested, recharged, active, inspired, settled. Both DS, our life in our beautiful village and my career contribute to that whole. Why should someone else come and write guilt into it? For what reason?

Everyone feels guilty for something as a parent though, isn't that compulsory?

I feel guilty that me being a SAHM has allowed - well, encouraged - DH to focus so much on his career that he spends less time with his kids now than he could when DS1 was a baby. Is all the extra time with me worth losing out on him? Obviously not. How much of this career progression would have happened anyway if I was working or not? Who knows, perhaps I've mitigated huge absences from us both by SAH. That's what I tell myself anyway.

All I can say is when someone says nursery is great for because I can smile and nod. But when people say because it makes me feel crappy and I wish WOHPs would stop doing it.

I don't ever say SAHM is better because god who knows. I'm only a parent trying to do her best (and enjoying the benefit of being able to choose to stay in PJs all day).

My DD, now 8, went to nursery full time from the age of 4 months.

I've never been super impressed with activities on offer - I would have done more with her, I think. I certainly would have done different things: certainly no messy play in my flat (no idea where this obsession with messy play comes from any way), but Kodaly music lessons, Gymboree etc... I would also have had more time to teach her my native language.

I don't agree with people who say that nurseries help with language development. There's little one on one time in nursery and my DD would always make sudden and rapid progress on that front when spending lots of time on holiday with us.

I don't feel guilty about going back to work for a second. But I don't think nursery gave my DD all she needed as a child. She did get love and cuddles and was safe. I've no doubt about that. But the quality of activities on offer was not all that. I personally think the government should invest much more in early years education and ensure each nursery employs a trained early years teacher for example (without bankrupting nurseries of course).

"It's really hard settling them in, but having an example of a working mum is worth it. I want them to know you have to work for things in life."
vs
"It's difficult for me to have taken time out of my career, but having the example of a mum who puts their needs first is worth it. I want them to know they are the most important thing to me."

OP - I'm with you on this. You hear the first load of tripe spouted (particularly on here ) all the time. The second load of tripe is the perfect counterpoint. But it would be far less "politically acceptable".

The second load of tripe is also spouted plenty often, both here and off board.

I agree with you OP

Nursery was NOT great for my older child, preschool was. I really think people should just realise it's different strokes for different folks, and leave it at that.

I never wanted to put my ds into nursery, we didn't get it free and I was a sahm, the thought of putting him in with strangers when he was young and couldn't even talk just didn't sit right with me, I had family members going on about his speech and how he should be in a nursery etc etc he hadn't even turned 2.

So I ended up having to travel on the bus to the closest nursery, he'd cry every time I'd drop him off. I'm not saying the nursery was horrible or anything but it weren't as if he had to go. His speech never improved, he was there about 6 months.

He's nearly 3 now I'm working and he's at a different nursery and is waiting at the front door to leave every morning he goes! Dp says I should put him more days a week but I don't really want him to go so much being young.

Shoutallyouwant There is no evidence at all that putting children that age in a nursery benefits them unless the parents are neglectful or struggling to cope. From about 3 they need some interaction and playing time with other kids. But that does not need to be at a nursery. So do what you think is best.

I've spoken to childminders who told me that they notice a big improvement in their mindee's speech and development whenever they return to them after a holiday. They put it down to spending more one to one time with adults.

That's a really good point teacher about all the factors that influence whether nursery is a good choice for an individual child. One factor in our decision not to use a nursery was that DS would have been there for around 10 hours a day due to our working hours and commuting distance and we felt that was just too long for him at this age.

batteries, yes about the guilt thing! I don't think having a stay at home parent is the right choice for every child or family but it's the right choice for us, just as nursery is the right choice for some of my friends. It's sad that parents are made to feel guilty about either choice.

bitlost, you're so right about the need for investing in early years education. It makes no sense that a four year old in reception must be taught by a qualified teacher with a degree, whereas a four year old in nursery can be cared for by someone with no qualifications at all (of course I recognise many nursery staff are qualified, but they don't all have to be). The nursery one of my friends uses has a really high staff turnover as a big proportion of their staff are people studying childcare who are on placements with them for short periods.