To want the other parents/nursery to do more?

[PeoniesGinandBags]

Okay so here goes...

DC goes to a lovely local nursery that I've always been happy with. Great staff, lots of activities etc. About 6 months ago another child started at the nursery - M.

We've had the usual ups and downs of nursery as children adjust, start/stop biting etc etc so I'm used to dealing with 'issues' and appreciate (being a teacher myself) that no child is perfect, two sides to every story etc.

However... M is a bloody nightmare.

On 3 occasions M has assaulted my child - yesterday getting hold of DC's hair with two hands and hitting it off the dinner table. These are not isolated cases. Two weeks ago I was collecting DC from nursery and I witnessed M casually walking over to another child, pushing them over and walking off. A week prior to that there was an incident involving M putting her hands around the neck of the same child she pushed over.

When I've spoken to nursery before about M they told me that it's 'in hand' and that 'someone was coming that day to do an observation of her'. I don't know who this would be?

To compound the issue (for me anyway) I witnessed M having a temper tantrum as Mum was collecting them from nursery. M wanted a toy that belonged to another child and M's Mum simply said to the other child, "Can you just let M have the toy for the night?" followed by lots of other attempts to 'reason' with M.

I'm sick to the back teeth of DC doing what they should, reporting things to the staff, not shouting/hitting back but to be honest enough is enough. It just seems that M is out of control. I can see there are issues for her but things seem to be escalating to an alarming degree.

Any advice? I called nursery this morning ahead of dropping DC off and said that I wanted to escalate my concerns, that we had had a bad night with DC after what had happened yesterday etc and I'm waiting to hear back from them. I have suggested (but don't know at all if this would be helpful) that I want a meeting with a senior member of staff at nursery as well as M's parents so that we can discuss strategies for a way forward (to be blunt - stop pandering to the tantrums and see the effect this is having on others). ARGH!!! I'm hopping mad but trying hard not to be unreasonable.

AIBU???

Er where have I said I referred them elsewhere ????????

I contacted ofsted because the nursery weren't employing any interventions they said they would to protect my child.

Nothing about referring the child elsewhere

But in answer to your question yes we do refer elsewhere ... to ASD specialists.
Inpatient mental health ward are rarely helpful for those with ASD and are more distressing.

Zzzzz

I wish it wasn't the reality. It is the reality though. 1000s of threads on here. Ten years of seeing it in schools. Not on my watch, but I liked to do things my own way and it worked. I still couldn't keep everyone safe on the playground, during PPA time, at lunch time.

Inadequate staffing, no money for 1:1 care, a policy of not diagnosing SEND until forced to, and then offering zero help quite often, just a diagnosis. Overwhelmed children with difficulty understanding others, or with difficulties that affect their decision making skills, being left to struggle, massively, without help. Managers who don't care. Teachers (and nursery staff) with very little knowledge of SEND.

ADHD is a particularly badly handled condition. I have seen cases of four years of uncontrolled violence towards classmates, and in one case a broken nose, before anyone would even diagnose, let alone help!

Sensory issues also - overstimulated children, not coping in an environment, go into 'fight or flight'.

And others. Thrown chairs, hitting, kicking, broken equipment. Even with bullying, how many posts on here show it is rarely stamped out completely?

Schools and nurseries have no spare money to help children like this and keep the others safe. But no one seems to care.

Some settings manage better - more experienced staff, more caring managers. But many do not.

Runninglikeamummy no and I don't need to be privvy to medical records - this was 13 years ago - he left that primary but then ended up at the same high school - he's seen him since then on lots of occasions and have mutual friends - he doesn't have SN, he was just a little shit when he was younger because he was allowed to be - since high school and more discipline he's conformed .... some children are brought up to do as they please and as children, they do the wrong thing because nobody tells them it's not okay - bad behaviour doesn't always come with a medical problem

I didnt say you rwferred them elsewhere NoMud. I asked you a question.

But in answer to your question yes we do refer elsewhere ... to ASD specialists.

Why do you need to refer them on to ASD specialists then? After all, you're a mental health nurse, so know all about intellectual disabilities right? Your own words. Why don't you just diagnose them? Or is because you dont have those specific qualifications to do so? Which kind of makes your own point moot? No?

It's the nursery which is the issue not M. They should be putting things into place to ensure all the children are safe and happy, they should not be telling you personal details of another child and they should also not be having a meeting with you and M's parents together. I'm sure M's parents have an hard enough life without being forced to feel shameful about their child's SN in front of another child's smug parent.

@zzzzz the age of criminal responsibility is 10 so to people below that age, no, they're not.

It doesn't work like that zzzz. Do you see parents being punished if their under 10 commits a crime? A teacher going to jail when an 8 year old hits another in their class? No, so why would a nursery be different

How on earth has a thread about two 4 yo having a scrap descended into arguments about criminal responsibility?

Or rather one 4 yo hitting/hurting another, sorry I didn't phrase the first comment well at all.

@zzzzz you were suggesting the previous poster report he nursery staff to the police because their child was bitten??

@Notreallyarsed because @NoMudNoLotus reported her child's nursery to ofsted when another student repeatedly bit her son and nothing was done about it and @zzzzz has completely misunderstood the justice system and thinks that the police will come and hold the nursery accountable to that.

Quite funny really.

For that*

@zzzzz but the facts are that children are not held criminally responsible until they are over 10. Sorry if this makes you feel as though they are second class citizens: it's just how it is.

How old was your son when you were discussing police involvement with his school? In my secondary setting we often invite the school's officer in to speak to students about their behaviour, in and out of school, because they could be held criminally responsible.

@zzzzz I understand where you're coming from but I'd be really, really surprised if the police would get involved in any way, shape or form.

That's what ofsted and other inspectorate bodies are for.

I called the police when a parent at nursery slapped my son who was 2 at the time. His DD and DS1 were bad for scrapping with each other (both have SN and the nursery was shite) and he was a woman beating thug who decided to walk up to my son and slap him across the face. THAT I involved the police for it was either that or I'd have battered him but not for another child or nursery not doing their job. I'd go to the education board for that.

That's a school zzzzz dealing with major incidents, not kids biting/hitting/scratching. To involve the police for that is a massive overreaction. I've already said that my child was assaulted by an adult and I called the police, so clearly there are some situations where it's warranted. DS1 was also assaulted at school last year and left with injuries requiring A&E treatment and is scarred significantly and permanently. I didn't involve the police, because the boy who did it has been assessed and requires two staff members to supervise him at all times and they weren't doing it. So I called the education department and requested that the staff involved had further training, a disciplinary procedure (for failure to protect DS1 and the other boy) and also understood the impact of their inaction on both DS1 and the boy who hurt him.
Parents going off the deep end and making a situation bigger than it needs to be don't help anyone, least of all their own child.