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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what policy your Uni has on women's spaces?

646 replies

SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 20:31

Those of you who have recent work or study experience.

Would you mind listing institution names and their policies?

NC if you need to of course.

OP posts:
FormerlyFrikadela01 · 27/07/2017 22:27

So it's specifically maternity care? Why would a transwomen need maternity care?

TheWitchAndTrevor · 27/07/2017 22:30

My GP is male. I have no issue with him treating me

That wasn't the question though was it.

For someone traumatised by sexual violence finding a safe place where they think, they are safe for help and recovery, away from triggers.

Is then ok to allow a male bodied worker or male identifying as woman into these spaces?

Knowing full well that majority of the people there will be triggered by this and it would then add to their PTS?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 27/07/2017 22:31

The MBB is fantastic if any of you who have experienced sexual violence would like to access it then please get in touch with them (they do preconception care right through to postnatal care as well as STI tests, smears etc. and they can advise and train your local maternity unit too)

It does look like a really worthwhile project - thanks for bringing it up Smile

BetsyM00 · 28/07/2017 00:35

Never heard of Body Back either, but I'm another in Scotland.

www.mybodybackproject.com/support-for-men/

According to this "we're not able to offer specialist support for men who have experienced sexual violence."

So where do the transwomen feature in this service?

MaidOfStars · 28/07/2017 09:33

But regardless, they've been reported as something they don't feel they are, they don't identify with, and they don't feel comfortable with
They are reported as male. Quite rightly.

The problems with identity start afterwards, when society tells the male how he should be behaving to fit his maleness.

VestalVirgin · 28/07/2017 10:00

The problems with identity start afterwards, when society tells the male how he should be behaving to fit his maleness.

Yeah. I don't get how so many people don't understand it. It is quite easy.

WeyHay · 28/07/2017 10:23

The problems with identity start afterwards, when society tells the male how he should be behaving to fit his maleness

Yes!

Women in this country (UK) who decided to wear "bloomers" to cycle astride in were considered mad. Literally. So were other women in the 19C who protested the restrictions of femininity. They were sectioned - locked away.

We wouldn't do that to men today who wore dresses as men - so why don't men who are not comfortable with restrictive & violent models of masculinity just do something about it - instead of claiming that they're women?

VestalVirgin · 28/07/2017 10:49

We wouldn't do that to men today who wore dresses as men - so why don't men who are not comfortable with restrictive & violent models of masculinity just do something about it - instead of claiming that they're women?

Because it is not about wearing dresses, it is about invading women's spaces.

I mean, take "Danielle" Muscato. He doesn't want to wear a dress, he doesn't want to remove his beard, he doesn't want to change is body, but he is a woman, because he says so. And takes up space in women's shelters.

If you want to see what purpose something serves, then look what it actually achieves.

The trans movement has so far made lots of women very unhappy because their newly acquired gender identities mean they have to fight with other women they'd get perfectly along with if not for their gender identites.

It has made a lot of children, many of the probably homosexual, irreversibly infertile.

It has resulted in women being sexually assaulted in spaces where previously they would have been safe. (Perfectly safe, in some; males did not previously get to shower with women in prisons. Women would not have been told to suck it up if a male guard had molested them in there, but now, they have to endure male criminals).

Has it made transwomen any safer? I haven't heard anything about that. Where is the decrease in transwomen suicide rates, now that they are prioritized over women? Where is the decrease in violence against transwomen?

Can men now wear dresses without being considered weird? No, they can't. Men cannot walk around in dresses without people assuming they are trans and identify as the opposite sex.

We do NOT live in a world where a man can walk around in a dress and people just look at him and think "oh, a man", the way people used to do with women in trousers. (Nowadays, a woman who wears trousers has to make up for it in peforming femininity some other way, or she'll be considere a transman)

ArcheryAnnie · 29/07/2017 10:07

You haven't even something feminine about your username.

Vestal, I usually agree with much of what you post, but am just checking in here to say that "femininity" is not a requirement of being a woman. I have a female-coded username on here, and I am a woman, but but I'd still be a woman if my username was "ArcheryArrow" or whatever.

The reason I am posting is because there's a real trend, which I am sure you know about, which tells butch women that they aren't "really" women, but self-hating trans men in denial, or at the very least "non-binary". Looking for femininity markers in other women reinforces this.

(I am sorry to bang on so, but I think it's important.)

WildernessWhale · 29/07/2017 10:21

Whales? You do realise that can be female, don't you?

Wilderness - again something that is enjoyed by females.

VestalVirgin · 29/07/2017 11:02

Vestal, I usually agree with much of what you post, but am just checking in here to say that "femininity" is not a requirement of being a woman. I have a female-coded username on here, and I am a woman, but but I'd still be a woman if my username was "ArcheryArrow" or whatever.

Archery, I didn't mean that you are required to have a feminine username. Not by any means. You are a woman who acknowledges that you are a woman because of biology, and not anything else. No femininity required.

But seeing as Wilderness thinks womanhood is all about femininity, and males can therefore be women if they feel like it, I think one can expect her to be consistent about her beliefs.

Especially if she is going to act all offended when someone guesses her gender identity wrong.

While I usually assume everyone on mumsnet is female by default, I assume that people who hate women and have no compassion for women are male, or identify as male.

Nnagain25 · 29/07/2017 11:54

At work we have male, female and labelled disabled. Any gender can use the disabled facilities. Unisex showers. We worked with people of All genders, we respected everyone, as it should be

unavita · 29/07/2017 12:46

I assume that people who hate women and have no compassion for women are male, or identify as male

I thought everyone hated women, thanks to internalised oppression.

WildernessWhale · 29/07/2017 14:38

"hate women and have no compassion for women are male"

Well, I don't hate women, and I don't have no compassion for women, so your argument is invalid.

venusinscorpio · 29/07/2017 20:18

Going to answer any of the perfectly reasonable questions that were put to you, Whale?

VestalVirgin · 29/07/2017 20:36

Don't think we'll see WildernessWhale here again.

Considering that Maria Miller threatened to walk out of an interview because questions she had no answer for were asked, I think this sets a trend for likeminded people.

@Whale: I meant compassion for the kind of woman who have vulvas, not those with penises. Just in case that wasn't clear.

You can of course identify as not hating women, but I haven't seen much practical evidence of you having compassion for the old fashioned kind of women on here ..

WildernessWhale · 30/07/2017 09:48

venusinscorpio

I spent hours answering your questions - every answer was twisted and turned, mainly by vestal but she certainly wasn't alone. One of vestal
s posts to me was absolutely vile - yet she claims I am the woman hater?

I left because I was going to bed - and due to Vestel's disgusting post, that's why I left - you will see I said several times I was going to bed, it was late at night - I was ready to sleep. I'd spent a couple of hours answering your questions only to have insults hurled at me at the fact I've been raped used against me.

Thanks to those of you that PMed me.

venusinscorpio · 30/07/2017 12:30

You were completely reaching with Vestal's post. She didn't mean it the way you interpreted it.

And no you didn't answer the questions.

ArcheryAnnie · 30/07/2017 16:45

Wilderness, have you had a chance to think about whether Stefonknee Wolscht is a six year old girl or a man in his fifties? (I know you weren't able to when I first asked, but you said you might look at some other point.) The reason I ask is because for many of us it cuts through a lot of the discussion about whether internal identity trumps all. (And I do know people who insist that Stefonknee is really a small girl, as much as it boggles me to think this.)

Datun · 30/07/2017 19:00

.

Datun · 31/07/2017 01:04

This thread is like every single conversation I have ever seen with a transactivist. Except no-one was threatened with rape, invited to suck someone's dick, or treated to creative ways on how they, their children and families can die.

"You can absolutely talk about this. The only thing you mustn't do is mis-gender someone. That's transphobic"

Okay, so we can talk about science?

"Not really. It's irrelevant. And anyway it's changed since you were at school".

How about biology?

"No, that's transphobic. And meaningless."

Ok, what about safety?

"Absolutely. Transwomen are scared of male violence. That's why they need to use the ladies"

But what about when women are scared of male violence?

"No, that's bigoted. And really mean."

Female oppression?

"Nope. No such thing. That was invented by feminists. It's gender oppression."

^Ok. So what can we talk about, then?

"Nothing. Get it?"

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