To ask what policy your Uni has on women's spaces?

[SerfTerf]

Those of you who have recent work or study experience.

Would you mind listing institution names and their policies?

NC if you need to of course.

How can they possibly express their boundaries without being interpreted as transphobic? And the only solution is for women to be excluded as anything else is transphobic.

It's deeply abusive. It's a situation I have been in, as I mentioned below I was in a violently abusive and controlling relationship as a young woman just before university, a point which Whale ignored. It would not have been fair to insist I share a bedroom with a male.

I have been a female for 26 years. I still have no idea what "identifying as a woman" or "identifying as female" means.

Oh women can express their views, just not in a transphobic way

The problem is that the definition of male and female isnt a view it is a fact.
That a transwoman is not a woman is not a view it is a fact.

Yet expressing these facts is seen as transphobic. Cries of "transphobic" are being used to shut down all discussion on the subject at some detriment to transgender people themselves.

Ferrets I've been one for 52. I haven't either. I've spoken to a trans friend about it - she doesn't know what she means, just that she feels 'more comfortable' or 'more herself' in a dress. Well that's me fucked because I feel very awkward and uncomfortable in one.

venusinscorpio

To start, I would say that the best way forwards to just appreciate that your view and your definition of how people view themselves, may not be their view and their definition of themselves.

A transwoman is a woman who was assigned male at birth - this is what the majority of my transwomen friends would like you to view themselves as (again, as it's been pointed out, not all transpeople feel the same).

cardi I've never been a fan of dresses either. I clearly fail at womanhood.

A transwoman is a woman who was assigned male at birth - this is what the majority of my transwomen friends would like you to view themselves as

I'm sure they do. But I don't believe it. Or any of the harmful gender crap that goes with it. Do you expect me to say things I am uncomfortable with and don't believe?

Nobody is assigned anything at birth! That's nonsense! Their sex is observed, and the gender follows as they are socialised! A teanswoman is a man who feels more comfortable in the feminine stereotype (often taken a bit literally).
My view or their view are irrelevant really. Their chromosomes tell us all what their sex is. Gender is a social construct, so more up for debate. The really progressive thing would be to remove gender, though, so someone could dress how they liked and still be their natal sex.

"Cries of "transphobic" are being used to shut down all discussion on the subject at some detriment to transgender people themselves."

Constantly kicking people down by referring to them as a gender they don't identify (which is what happened on this thread) is actually transphobic in my mind - they don't feel safe expressing themselves because you are constantly telling them they are not who they are.

If you want to have progressive and proactive discussions (and I actually believe some of you really do want that because you want to raise your views and opinions), leave that behind - just let people express their identity without slamming them saying "you are not a woman, you have a penis".

I've just been to the my body back clinic in London recently - as a patient - how do you all feel about some of their services being transwomen safe?

Is that something you are against?

Do you expect me to willingly give up my rights with a smile so their feelings don't get hurt? Do you realise that's abusive behaviour?

A transwoman is a woman who was assigned male at birth - this is what the majority of my transwomen friends would like you to view themselves as (again, as it's been pointed out, not all transpeople feel the same)

The problem is this is absolute bollocks! People aren't assigned male or female, they are male or female. It is terrifying how these convoluted, illogical, imaginary arguments are being used to argue that black is white, and that so many people believe them.

Is no-one capable of critical thought, or even some basic awareness of biology?

A transwoman is a woman who was assigned male at birth

Nobody is assigned male (or female) at birth.

Your sex is correctly recorded as either male or female depending on whether you have a penis or vagina.

I had to stop reading this part way through but I find what Loop has been describing to be utterly terrifying, it's complete indoctrination. And the fact that a 26 year old woman has swallowed it hook, line and sinker without appearing to apply any intelligent, independant critical thought whatsoever even more so.

I do not think I'd like any child of mine to be a student right now if this is the utter garbage that's expected of them. For universities to act this this is an absolute disgrace.

If you want to have progressive and proactive discussions (and I actually believe some of you really do want that because you want to raise your views and opinions), leave that behind - just let people express their identity without slamming them saying "you are not a woman, you have a penis".

How exceedingly patronising. I think most people here have thought it through more than you, IMO.

Constantly kicking people down by referring to them as a gender they don't identify (which is what happened on this thread) is actually transphobic in my mind - they don't feel safe expressing themselves because you are constantly telling them they are not who they are.

I will accept that people are whatever gender they wish (though I am somewhat saddened that such a regressive concept is so important to them). I will never accept that someone can change their sex.

Wilderness - this is a genuine question: do you think that Stefonknee Wolcht is genuinely a seven-year-old girl, and not a man in his fifties? And if not, why not?

(There's plenty about Stefonknee on google if you haven't come across them.)

"I think most people here have thought it through more than you"

I very much doubt that.

Buy nobody "assigns" someone a sex at birth. It just "is". Your biological sex is a fact. It's not someones objective or subjective decision to "give" someone a biological sex.

I feel like I'm in a parallel universe sometimes.

I'm white. "Identifying" as something does not mean you are something.

I will come back and get into Stefonknee Wolcht at a later date (this isn't a cop out, I have dissociative disorder and getting into things like this right before I sleep generally fucks me up).

I very much doubt that.

I guess we'll have to agree to differ.

Sorry - cross posts there...

"You are not a woman, you have a penis".

But ... that one's just true. Women, by definition, don't have penises.

I honestly had no idea that could be construed as offensive, it's not a criticism or a cruelty, it doesn't mean having a penis is a bad thing - it's just a label and category?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine yes! That's it exactly.
Wolderness why are you so sure you have thought more about this than anyone else? Given that you don't seem to understand the science? I think you need a grasp of science and psychology/sociology to understand this debate.