To ask what policy your Uni has on women's spaces?

[SerfTerf]

Those of you who have recent work or study experience.

Would you mind listing institution names and their policies?

NC if you need to of course.

I have never said the safety and mental health of women and girls is not important - please stop alluding to things I have not said.

You've repeatedly argued that their safety and mental health should come second to that of transwomen, though, Wilderness.

" you expect women to silently accept male bodied people in shared facilities"

Again, not what I have been saying. I have never said one is "more valid" than the other in terms of populations - they are equal.

If you don't want to use a gender-neutral toilet, then don't. But don't feel transwomen and transmen shouldn't have the option to do so
This isn't what we were talking about, is it Wilderness? I have no problem with bendeer neutral spaces. I just don't want men to have a right to enter gender - no not gender, sex - specific spaces just because they say so.

Again, not what I have been saying. I have never said one is "more valid" than the other in terms of populations - they are equal.

So you're ok with us telling them how we feel about it?

Given that everyone knows their own mind best?

Do you identify as someone who should use the female bathrooms in your view of yourself?

I don't identify as anything or have a view of myself.

I know I'm female because my biology tells me I am.

However I do not identify as female. I don't have any gender identity.

"You've repeatedly argued that their safety and mental health should come second to that of transwomen,"

No I haven't.

I pointed out our cruddy and long-term societal views on transpeople are largely responsible for the elevated suicide rates we see in that population of our communities.

Again, I have never put anyone first, second, etc.

Bendeer? What's that? Gender. Sorry, illiterate iPad.

venusinscorpio

Not when it amounts to transphobia, no.

I pointed out our cruddy and long-term societal views on transpeople are largely responsible for the elevated suicide rates we see in that population of our communities.

You didn't "point anything out". You expressed a view that is in dispute.

"just because they say so."

And i feel that people who don't identify as male should be free to access women's spaces if that's where they feel most appropriate is for them to access.

It's really not a case of "because they say so", it's how people identify.

If you are saying that transwomen should be able to use single-sex women's facilities, then you are arguing that their safety and mental health should take priority over that of women and girls. There's no two ways about it. They have competing interests.

(In practice, when there are single-sex women's loos, single-sex men's loos and gender-neitral loos all present, many transwomen will use the women's loos as it's a validation. I have been at conferences where this has happened. Gender-neutral loos do not solve this.)

Not when it amounts to transphobia, no.

So you do actually want women to be silently accepting then?

But transphobia in your world means exactly what you say it means, nothing more and nothing less. Humpty Dumpty logic. It's impossible to say anything about gender or sex without being accused of transphobia. And most transpeople don't want this. Who is it for?

I pointed out the elevated suicide attempts as reported by organisation such as the Tavistock.

Are you really disputing the evidence of the Tavistock?

It is exactly a case of "because they say so". That's literally what it is.

So you'd be okay getting changed in an open play changing room with Danielle Muscato?

Right-o then.

I pointed out the elevated suicide attempts as reported by organisation such as the Tavistock.

No you also made a causal assumption and a moral judgement.

"So you do actually want women to be silently accepting then?"

Oh women can express their views, just not in a transphobic way - I feel the same about homophobia, racism, antisemitism, ; not acceptable expression of views.

How do you know it's how they identify? Because they say so...
What if some of them are lying to take advantage?
What if identifying is a load of bollocks? Identify with what?

Wilderness, do you think there are valid reasons for male spaces and female spaces?

If so, why do people get to decide which they access at any one time? If not, why not get rid of all of them?

What is your definition of transphobia by the way?

How can we express our views that we are uncomfortable with a male in our space in a non transphobic way?

"Do as I say or I will kill myself" is, and always has been, an abuser's move.

Women and girls are not responsible for the mental health of men or transwomen. That's up to them to sort out, not for women and girls to put their own safety, privacy and mental health at risk for.

(Not sarcasm by the way, it's something I'm still trying to get my head round and so far everyone who has said "transphobic" hasn't given any examples.)

Yy Annie.