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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my brother is being really unreasonable

274 replies

user1478433729 · 26/07/2017 08:17

Please help me to diffuse a difficult family situation.

My brother, SIL and 3 wk newborn baby live in the flat I own. To give some context; it's in central London, with a private garden, and was bought at a time (2000) when it was just barely affordable.
I've rented it to them since the end of last year when I moved out to get married.
The rent we agreed is what they were paying previously in their old flat, outside London. I proposed and agreed this as the amount covers both the mortgage and service charge - though it leaves no room for contingencies. It was my decision to rent at this level, and so far I've had no reason to regret my decision.
I'm not looking to make money from it, and my feeling has always been, as elder sister, to share my good luck with family in having a nice home in central London.
It's worth pointing out that the agreed rent is half the market value of other flats in the area - i.e., it's a good deal.

At the time they moved into my flat, their previous tenancy was coming to an end and they were struggling to find somewhere that was in their financial reach. Moving into my flat seemed like a reasonable solution all round.
When we agreed the rent, we set up a formal agreement so that everything was in black and white. I had the boiler serviced and made sure that all fire precautions in place. I also left the flat partially furnished (bed, sofa, interior furnishings, dining table) as they had none. I also bought a new sofa and also paid for contents insurance too.

Fast forward to last weekend. I'm currently out of the country and am also 8 months preg. I recd a no of texts from my bro to say that the boiler was not working and that there was no hot water.
I called out an emergency plumber that night (Sunday) to diagnose and his view was that a new boiler is needed. Mindful that this is going to be an expensive job of just under 3k (one that as landlord I fully realise I am responsible for and need to address, but equally an issue that needs to be addressed quickly, esp as newborn in house), I emailed 5 different plumbing co's on Sunday evening to ask them to quote on new installation and advise on speed of availability of 1/quote and 2/installation.
I cc'd my brother into these emails, mainly to reassure him that I was addressing the situation asap, and to keep him in the loop as to whom I had contacted.
On Monday am, at 7:30am uk time I recd the first reply to say they could have a plumber over to quote at 10am.
I forwarded the email on to my brother (assuming he would be ok with this) but chose not to call him as it was early and I didn't want to wake him up. He is currently on paternity leave with their 3 wk old.

Unfortunately, he did not read the email and was woken by the plumber knocking on the door at 10am.
He let the plumber in to quote, but afterwards sent a really rude and unpleasant email. I was taken aback by the viciousness....that I'm inconsiderate etc etc.
On reflection, I should have waited to ask if that time was ok, but I thought I was doing the right thing in terms of sorting out the problem asap.
I'm not back in the UK until the end of next week and don't want to just leave it until I get back.

If I was back in the UK, I would be on hand to liaise re timings but the fact is I'm not in the UK. I said that I needed his 'help' to liaise and coordinate timings for plumber inspection quotes.

I explained that it was really hard for me to do this and that I needed his 'help' to coordinate as I'm not in the UK, can barely get wifi/dial tone.

In short, he told me he wasn't prepared to help sort out the boiler issue as it is 'my flat/my boiler/my responsibility.'..,that they've lived in rental property enough to know that they shouldn't have to be responsible for helping with this.
I'm afraid I blew my top:
I said I wanted to address the elephant in the room which is that surely there is room for a bit of give and take here on the 'help' front.....,especially as I'm out of UK ....but also that I've tried to help them out with a flat where they are paying a subsidised rate at half market value.
This then escalated the situation: he's now saying they are really insulted, that they are not charity cases and that it's not like I need the money....and that I'm not working at present.....that I'm 'money grabbing' for even mentioning this subsidised issue.

I'm not working right now, have no income (am being supported financially by husband, which I don't like) and am not eligible for maternity benefits. I'm currently 8 months in to a problematic pregnancy.

Im not regretting my decision to rent at this subsidised rate, but I now feel deeply resentful. The 'help' I am asking them for is to ideally verbally agree a time with the plumber that works for them and to open the door so the plumber can inspect the boiler.
I need to get a range of quotes as it is going to be an expensive job (prob about 2.5-3k and I just can't afford to pay top whack).

I've never said or implied that they are charity cases but the fact is they are living in a very nice part of town in a flat that they would never be able to afford otherwise. It is a vastly subsidised rent.
I'm not expecting constant gratitude, but a thank you and a bit of give and take on the help front when I'm physically unable to resolve the situation, would have gone a long way.

In this one instance, where I'm physically unable to coordinate, I would have hoped that they could see I wanted to do a decent thing, both as landlord and sister, and just be on hand to open the door.
I'm just shocked and hurt at the amount of abuse that has come my way. I feel such a fool. Since the baby has been born, I've brought clothes, made lasagne....I feel such a fool.

He is now threatening to leave the flat and the situation is escalating.
I have not said a thing about them leaving the flat....but quite frankly, I'm feeling resentful of the attitude and the assumption that as I've a husband who can financially support me, that I'm money grabbing for pointing out that I've helped them financially and that I would really appreciate a bit of help in return in resolving the issue.

What to do?

OP posts:
Motoko · 26/07/2017 17:33

The OP can't evict him until the end of the fixed term. She will need to give him 2 months notice, so if the fixed term ends in October, she needs to send the S21soon.

She can however, agree to him surrendering the tenancy before that.

Rainbunny · 26/07/2017 18:11

This is why I won't intertwine family with any business arrangements, it gets mucky! In your shoes, I would let your DB cool down for a while and then approach him calmly and say that it's best for everyone if you terminate the agreement after 6 months (if you're able to do that) which should be enough time for him to relocate. Don't expect your DB to express any gratitude towards you, he clearly views himself as a victim and that's not going to change. I'd also be prepared for him to end up not paying rent before he leaves - feeling like a victim he may feel justified and could claim he needs to save for their next place. I really hope you don't end having to go through eviction proceedings :(

In one small way he was right to feel annoyed that he didn't get consulted on the plumber visit, you wouldn't have treated a regular tenant that way.

Likewise, and I know this will grate but it can be annoying when someone does you a favour but then constantly reminds you of it - I'm not saying you did that but your DB definitely sounds like he resents you raising the issue the of favour you're doing him and implying that he is ungrateful in retaliation to his complaints about the plumber showing up. I'm sure he is being ungrateful to you but it didn't help at that time to mention it.

Sorry, I sympathise with you and again that's why I don't advise these arrangements. Sadly gratitude can sometimes turn into self-justification followed by entitlement and even resentment towards the person helping, biting the hand that feeds and all that.

RenterNomad · 26/07/2017 18:12

Does SIL know he's endangering the roof over their heads, or is their marriage in trouble, too? See if you can get in touch with her, to see if he's serious about the threats to leave (tge flat!), etc. Give her a chance to put this right, or else she'll suffer for her husband's and landlady's fight (and so will her baby, your DN!)

GreenTulips · 26/07/2017 18:22

Does he claim housing benefit? Is he pocketing any difference?

Realitysandwich1 · 26/07/2017 18:53

I wouldn't want to be the person that caused my db's wife and new baby to have to leave a garden flat.

Yes db's been a dick but play this out - they are tired, they are under financial pressure and I'm sure they hate feeling they're being done a favour even though they are - a lot of people are sneery about people better off than them and feel looked down on. Having a first baby is a huge responsibility and stress.

Just stick to the boiler issue, the need for access and reiterate that you love them and don't engage with the emotional bs.

If they move out, fine, but don't get yourself into a situation where you issue the ultimatum as you'll only feel bad about it if you're nice enough to have gotten into this arrangement!

user1478433729 · 26/07/2017 18:57

Update: good news; boiler issue solved as engineer was allowed into the flat this afternoon and has carried out a repair. No need to get new boiler (huge relief).

For now, I'm going to let the dust settle. I don't want to cause a family rift by threatening to evict them (especially as they have a newborn), but I'm mindful that this has been very much a wake up call that the situation is not feasible in the longer term. Thanks to the prof landlords here who have advised on how to best go about this commercially.

I've emailed my brother to acknowledge that the boiler issue has now been resolved. I've also noted that comments regarding him leaving the flat have been initiated by him (not me) and that if his intention is that way inclined, then he needs to follow the notice period set out in the contract and formally advise as such.

I also explained that I felt extremely uncomfortable about what had happened, that I understood they were under a lot of pressure with a newborn, that on reflection I could have given them more notice re the engineer turning up, but that I too expected some assistance given that I had helped them out with a favourable rent.
I reiterated again that I'm in some discomfort as I'm 8 months preg and this has made me feel extremely stressed out. (It really has)

No reply (yet). Not really expecting anything.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 26/07/2017 19:10

Actually on reflection I think you should not have mentioned, and kept mentioning, the low rent.

You should expect some assistance given with access for a plumber simply because they want their boiler fixed and you to arrange it and pay for it - therefore the plumber needs letting in and it won't be at a time they have chosen because it's not them arranging it. This is, and always will be, the case when you rent a property. (Tbh it's also the case when you own a property - the plumber will come when they bloody well choose.) It's got nothing to do with their level of rent, it's irrelevant here, and it is perhaps a little crass for you to keep mentioning it.

On reflection though maybe the relevance is more that your DB thought he could send you an abusive email he would never send another landlord, because he was your brother and as his sister you should just suck it up. So maybe no bad thing to let him know that you are already ducking up not getting much rent out of sisterly love and don't hav to take his rudeness as well.

But in the words of David Brent "don't keep saying it!"

EssentialHummus · 26/07/2017 19:11

OP I'm very glad the immediate issue is resolved. The longer-term stuff regarding them leaving the flat or not - frankly, it's not urgent and I think you're wise to let the dust settle.

All the best in your pregnancy Flowers

scootinFun · 26/07/2017 19:16

At least boiler issue is sorted

ShmooBooMoo · 26/07/2017 19:17

OP, all well and good but really you need to start action to get your brother out (no renewal come October). Harsh but true. He resents your better financial postion and his reliance on you (my guess is he wants the flat for free!). It can't end well. Now he knows he can treat you like shit without consequences he'll take the piss even more.
You've only had this arrangement with your brother for a year in October IIRC? Long enough for it to have become apparent that it's not working out well. The longer you let this go on, the longer his sense of entitlement will grow and the more difficult it will be to get him out.
I know that they have a baby but you can't carry your brother through life. I would contact him, tell him you've thought about things, the arrangement is not working well and give him notice to quit as you won't be renewing the lease come October. That gives him and his family 2 plus months to find alternative housing. You shouldn't have to but to facililate the process (for yourself, not for him), if he has paid a deposit, I would allow him to keep it to put down as a deposit on a new rental property (providing he leaves your flat as he found it).
Your brother sounds like the more you do for him, the more he'll shit on you ...

ShmooBooMoo · 26/07/2017 19:18

sorry *greater, not longer

CouldntMakeThisShitUp · 26/07/2017 19:25

I've got a feeling that they will not leave willingly, OP.
Not when they KNOW they've got a really good deal.

You need to get the rent situation sorted asap....seeing as you are responsible for all repairs.

I bet he thinks he's entitled to live there cheaply and will try to emotionally blackmail you every time you try to sort out this issue.
The money you will be spending on repairs/tax etc is money that could have been spent on your dc/home/fund your maternity.

You are in a position where you have NO personal financial security or independence.
Something HAS to change or you will be stuck with this freeloader forever.

Realitysandwich1 · 26/07/2017 19:26

I'd let it settle - you may find they give you notice and decide to move out and buy so it'll all end easily. It didn't sound like they're happy feeling beholden and the reaction sounded like pride to me.

Sugarpiehoneyeye · 26/07/2017 19:39

ShmooBooMoo is 100% correct.
You've been incredibly kind to your brother, who has shown you his true colours, it's now time to be kind to yourself.
Take it easy OP.💐

Mummyoflittledragon · 26/07/2017 20:03

It doesn't look like you're going to serve the section 21. I wouldn't give him an extension, let it go onto periodic so he needs to give you one months notice and you need to give him 2. I would also get some tax advice preferably before the baby is born to find out how much tax you will be liable to pay and amend the rent accordingly. In the amended amount, also have to consider overheads, insurance, repairs, servicing etc. As you are doing it yourself, it would also be good to check you've got all the relevant safety checks. Right now, it sounds as though you are subsidising your brother and after how he's treated you, I think you would be wise to think again on that decision.

CPtart · 26/07/2017 20:07

Your priorities changed the minute you got pregnant. Your focus now needs to be on yourself, your forthcoming newborn and your future. That money you're missing out on each month could be going into a bank account for your DC, or (worse case scenario as I always think) as a nest egg for you if you're ever left a single parent (as many women are). Your brother has shown his true self, full of personal criticism fuelled through jealousy, but still happy for you to subsidise his lifestyle and pay his bills. Stop being a mug. Give him 3 months notice and move on.

DasPepe · 26/07/2017 20:20

We live in a wonderful house, which our friends have offered us to rent when they moved away. We could never afford a house like this as they have been kind to offer us rent below market value - on the premise that they know and trust us.

We have remained aware of this through the entire tenancy so far. We are thankful and have tried our best to keep the house tidy (with 2 kids) more so than we would have if it had been ours. Any problems I have reported asap and have been accommodating with any annual services to beating/ alarm etc.

Your brother is being selfish, unreasonable and for some reason entitled.
If I had no hot water I would welcome the plumber at any time.

mrsRosaPimento · 26/07/2017 20:58

Why are you letting him treat you so badly?

NoPressureNoDiamonds · 27/07/2017 17:38

YANBU
He can leave and you can make a nice bit of cash renting it out at market value. Or he can stay and apologise.

Dollymouse · 27/07/2017 17:44

Hi I agree with user 149 etc

Keep your side of the street clean and forget he's your brother - send him a loving dma saying sorry he got woken up - you thought you were doing the right thing. Keen to get it relived for the sake of his family. When could they accommodate a plumber - kill him with love and kindness. He is wrong and being a prick - BUT I bet his behaviour is about 100 other things and not this. Whenever I get family stuff like this I try to apply massive love to the situation - it gives the other person room to be different- when they are in a shit place and I join in it just escalates. Whatever happens - then once it's sorted say you'd be grateful if he could either help if something goes wrong or you'll have to bring in a managing agent (and put the rent up) because even though you'll respond - it's difficult to respond quickly if you are elsewhere and will only get worse when your baby is born. Hopefully he will realise he's been unreasonable xxx

user1483875094 · 27/07/2017 17:56

Given the manner my generosity has been abused by you, I am now giving you one months' notice to leave the property. I realise that you may have a quite serious problem in finding anywhere suitable for anything close to the rent I have allowed you to pay, and clearly you have never given a thought to what I have foregone, in possible rental income, because, as family, I have provided you with a huge favour of a hugely reduced rent. However, I will not be intimidated and insulted in this manner, and am very shocked indeed to discover that you have absolutely no understanding of the value of rental accommodation in London. You are clearly not happy with the arrangement, and so it is best for all concerned, that you find "alternative" acommodation, within the next month, and this is your notixe to leave, when I can then let my property to other individuals who will pay twice as much as the rent I have allowed you to enjoy.

Sparklyglitter · 27/07/2017 17:59

Let them leave - I would say I'm really sorry you don't feel able to support with appointments for the plumber. I am unable to meet with a plumber until xxxxx if you would prefer to wait this long without a boiler please can you confirm this by return and I will organise everything when I am back in the country. If however you would like this rectified sooner I will email you dates and times as I am contacted by the plumbers.
If you feel you would like to leave the flat then of course that is your decision it will be a real shame, but I respect whichever choice you make.

Maireadplastic · 27/07/2017 18:02

We'll done, OP. Be a big person, forgive him quietly. Let it go.

ittakes2 · 27/07/2017 18:04

If I was him - cheaper rent or not - I would have gotten the quotes myself because with you being my sister and overseas and me living there - it just would have been the sensible thing to do.

wheresmyphone · 27/07/2017 18:09

Well done OP on being good about it. I think you have behaved admirably.