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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my brother is being really unreasonable

274 replies

user1478433729 · 26/07/2017 08:17

Please help me to diffuse a difficult family situation.

My brother, SIL and 3 wk newborn baby live in the flat I own. To give some context; it's in central London, with a private garden, and was bought at a time (2000) when it was just barely affordable.
I've rented it to them since the end of last year when I moved out to get married.
The rent we agreed is what they were paying previously in their old flat, outside London. I proposed and agreed this as the amount covers both the mortgage and service charge - though it leaves no room for contingencies. It was my decision to rent at this level, and so far I've had no reason to regret my decision.
I'm not looking to make money from it, and my feeling has always been, as elder sister, to share my good luck with family in having a nice home in central London.
It's worth pointing out that the agreed rent is half the market value of other flats in the area - i.e., it's a good deal.

At the time they moved into my flat, their previous tenancy was coming to an end and they were struggling to find somewhere that was in their financial reach. Moving into my flat seemed like a reasonable solution all round.
When we agreed the rent, we set up a formal agreement so that everything was in black and white. I had the boiler serviced and made sure that all fire precautions in place. I also left the flat partially furnished (bed, sofa, interior furnishings, dining table) as they had none. I also bought a new sofa and also paid for contents insurance too.

Fast forward to last weekend. I'm currently out of the country and am also 8 months preg. I recd a no of texts from my bro to say that the boiler was not working and that there was no hot water.
I called out an emergency plumber that night (Sunday) to diagnose and his view was that a new boiler is needed. Mindful that this is going to be an expensive job of just under 3k (one that as landlord I fully realise I am responsible for and need to address, but equally an issue that needs to be addressed quickly, esp as newborn in house), I emailed 5 different plumbing co's on Sunday evening to ask them to quote on new installation and advise on speed of availability of 1/quote and 2/installation.
I cc'd my brother into these emails, mainly to reassure him that I was addressing the situation asap, and to keep him in the loop as to whom I had contacted.
On Monday am, at 7:30am uk time I recd the first reply to say they could have a plumber over to quote at 10am.
I forwarded the email on to my brother (assuming he would be ok with this) but chose not to call him as it was early and I didn't want to wake him up. He is currently on paternity leave with their 3 wk old.

Unfortunately, he did not read the email and was woken by the plumber knocking on the door at 10am.
He let the plumber in to quote, but afterwards sent a really rude and unpleasant email. I was taken aback by the viciousness....that I'm inconsiderate etc etc.
On reflection, I should have waited to ask if that time was ok, but I thought I was doing the right thing in terms of sorting out the problem asap.
I'm not back in the UK until the end of next week and don't want to just leave it until I get back.

If I was back in the UK, I would be on hand to liaise re timings but the fact is I'm not in the UK. I said that I needed his 'help' to liaise and coordinate timings for plumber inspection quotes.

I explained that it was really hard for me to do this and that I needed his 'help' to coordinate as I'm not in the UK, can barely get wifi/dial tone.

In short, he told me he wasn't prepared to help sort out the boiler issue as it is 'my flat/my boiler/my responsibility.'..,that they've lived in rental property enough to know that they shouldn't have to be responsible for helping with this.
I'm afraid I blew my top:
I said I wanted to address the elephant in the room which is that surely there is room for a bit of give and take here on the 'help' front.....,especially as I'm out of UK ....but also that I've tried to help them out with a flat where they are paying a subsidised rate at half market value.
This then escalated the situation: he's now saying they are really insulted, that they are not charity cases and that it's not like I need the money....and that I'm not working at present.....that I'm 'money grabbing' for even mentioning this subsidised issue.

I'm not working right now, have no income (am being supported financially by husband, which I don't like) and am not eligible for maternity benefits. I'm currently 8 months in to a problematic pregnancy.

Im not regretting my decision to rent at this subsidised rate, but I now feel deeply resentful. The 'help' I am asking them for is to ideally verbally agree a time with the plumber that works for them and to open the door so the plumber can inspect the boiler.
I need to get a range of quotes as it is going to be an expensive job (prob about 2.5-3k and I just can't afford to pay top whack).

I've never said or implied that they are charity cases but the fact is they are living in a very nice part of town in a flat that they would never be able to afford otherwise. It is a vastly subsidised rent.
I'm not expecting constant gratitude, but a thank you and a bit of give and take on the help front when I'm physically unable to resolve the situation, would have gone a long way.

In this one instance, where I'm physically unable to coordinate, I would have hoped that they could see I wanted to do a decent thing, both as landlord and sister, and just be on hand to open the door.
I'm just shocked and hurt at the amount of abuse that has come my way. I feel such a fool. Since the baby has been born, I've brought clothes, made lasagne....I feel such a fool.

He is now threatening to leave the flat and the situation is escalating.
I have not said a thing about them leaving the flat....but quite frankly, I'm feeling resentful of the attitude and the assumption that as I've a husband who can financially support me, that I'm money grabbing for pointing out that I've helped them financially and that I would really appreciate a bit of help in return in resolving the issue.

What to do?

OP posts:
Nocabbageinmyeye · 26/07/2017 08:43

If he threatened to leave via email them mail him back and accept that as official notice, include the date he needs to leave by, according to his contract. You are mad to give it at half market value, you have no idea what will happen in your future, you ate now relying on your dh (absolutely fine), but that rent could be a nice little nest egg should you not be able to rely on him in the future. Also since your db is an ungrateful knob then it's better you know now before it's too far down the line

daro · 26/07/2017 08:46

surely as a tenant he would have to be there to allow access even if the landlord wasnt his sister. He is being a twat.

Tell him fine you will sort it out when you get home if he wont help and if you are too sick/busy he will have to wait until you can get around to it.

If i was him i might have been pissed off to be woken up with no notice but got over it when i realised that you were doing your best to get it sorted asap for me.

Andromache77 · 26/07/2017 08:46

My sister had me pay off a large proportion of her DP's car loan (yes, his car) because they had no money after him being laid off and of course selling it was not an option, then two years in, with me near full term pregnant, when I mentioned it in passing insulted me in front of my parents in a hysterical scream-fest that lasted a very long time and escalated when I started crying (out of frustration, as my parents were there and I didn't want to raise to it, so I kept quiet). For context, I'm the youngest (and she's always made a big deal about being the big sister) and I hate her DP as he does me, it's not a secret.

Oh, and on another occasion, I can't remember if before or after this but probably after, she started telling me what she was planning to do with this money once the loan was paid off, because by then she must have considered it part of her regular, hard-won income; the fact that it came from me, that I'm not rich and that it was supposed to be temporary (and refundable, though I always knew I'd never see it again) was irrelevant, I guess.

By all means, let them leave. The resentment is there (from your brother to you, just like my sister resents me for helping her, I guess because it burst her bubble that everything is fine in her life when it's not) and it won't disappear, but at least you will have your flat back and be able to get some income from your investment.

Pengggwn · 26/07/2017 08:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

honeysucklejasmine · 26/07/2017 08:48

Hopefully your brother has been putting aside the rent difference too so he's got a decent lump sum as a deposit for his next place.

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 26/07/2017 08:48

He's called you money grabbing? Because your husband is supporting your family when you're 8 months pregnant?

Is he always like this. How is your relationship normally. Does he 'expect' a lot of things as you 'have it all'?

If so its probably best he just leave. You have a formal contract so it should be fairly easy. They're kicking off about getting a boiler whereas you can show you're being a responsible landlord trying to get it fixed asap.

If it's out of the ordinary perhaps it is just sleep deprivation and maybe see if he comes back to you to apologise/smooth things out a bit.

Personally although it's very kind of you - renting out to family at preferential rates always seems to bite people on the arse judging by these boards...if you're out of the country rent privately and get a letting agency to take care of the management

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 26/07/2017 08:49

Ps hope you and bump are well and take care Flowers

bumblingbovine49 · 26/07/2017 08:51

He is a new dad (I assume a first time one) on paternity leave with a baby that is only 3 weeks old. Maybe the plumber called just as he was getting a crying baby to sleep and he was just trying to get some sleep himself. It couldn't be helped and he is being completely unreasonable BUT I remember the shock of those early weeks and he is probably reeling a bit.

If you have a good relationship with him, email him again (maybe cc your SIl as well) and ask how he is. Explain again about the miscommunication re the visit and that you were just trying to sort thing quickly but you appreciate that may not have been convenient for him. Tell him you will ask the plumbers to contact him directly to arrange their visits so that he can arrange conveneint times for him.

Tell the plumbers that conatct you from now on to contact your brother to make an appointment to visit and but to send you the quotes.

Keep the email light in tone, with very specific actions for how to proceed. If you and your brother have a good relationship usually, he will see he has been an idiot and things will calm down

(btw I think you have done a greta job tryiing to get it sorted quickly and would be very happy if you were my landlord.)

HumphreyCobblers · 26/07/2017 08:52

I would be bloody livid too tbh.

If I were lucky enough to be in your brother's shoes I hope to god I would be grateful. Even if I was slightly pissed off to be woken up (and I can't imagine I could be sad about someone coming to fix my bloody hot water when I have a newborn!) I would have just muttered about it, not bloody emailed you.

Sorry you are having to put up with this. I think you have been incredibly generous in the past. I hope your brother will reflect and apologise.

RhubardGin · 26/07/2017 08:56

You sound like a wonderful sister and your brother sounds like an ungrateful dickhead.

After everything you have done for them how dare he treat you this way!

He is obviously one of those people in life who think the world owes him a living, what an awful situation to be in.

Just tell him that you're sorry he feels that way, explain that he is being extremely ungrateful a fucking twat and if he wants to leave that's his decision.

Don't let yourself get too stressed Flowers

SleepFreeZone · 26/07/2017 08:58

I agree with everyone else. He is no doubt sleep deprived and not thinking straight. If tell him you're going to sell up and put the house on the market.

Lindy2 · 26/07/2017 08:59

Tell him that you are finding it difficult to coordinate repairs from abroad so have decided to use a letting agent going forward. The letting agent will assess the actual market rent that will apply when they take over and your brother can then decide whether to stay on at that rent or not.
To be honest being abroad and with a new baby on the way a letting agent is probably the way to go. They take heafty fees but will deal with day to day repairs, letting requirements like gas safety checks etc. for you without family conflicts.

PetraDelphiki · 26/07/2017 09:02

He's being a twat! I let a property to a friend at significantly less than market rent but the deal is if there's a problem she gets it dealt with and sends me the bill. I trust her to not take the piss (so she doesn't) and I don't have to make a 4 hour round trip to sort out letting plumbers in.

StillStayingClassySanDiego · 26/07/2017 09:02

Don't let yourself get too stressed over this.

He can leave if he wants [they won't] and you can get in a tenant paying a more realistic rent.

diddl · 26/07/2017 09:06

I agree to letting him go.

What an absolute arse.

JenziW · 26/07/2017 09:07

You're right he is BU. You organise a quote without his help and got grief for it. You tell him to help co-ordinate to get is sorted ASAP when convenient for him too and got grief for it.

Tone can be misinterpreted on email and msgs unfortunately. He's stressing and sleep deprived so probably way too sensitive right now. Thats no excuse though. I hope he apologises and gratefully accepts you sorting things as much as you can. Good luck.

emmyrose2000 · 26/07/2017 09:10

I agree with the majority to call his bluff. His reaction and entitlement are acceptable. Either accept the email as his formal intent to leave, or tell him if he wants to stay that it will be at full market rate (if you're willing to let him stay).

Quite honestly, due to the fact that he's getting a bargain on the rent, I think it would've been fair for him to pay the entire bill for the replacement/repaired boiler.

Feilin · 26/07/2017 09:12

Be calm. Bumblingbovine has the nail on the head there . Good advice. Small babies cause a lot of tiredness and thats no excuse but it is understandable . Plus a broken boiler. Thats enough to piss anyone off . Just remember you are doing your best and its not your fault.

elevenclips · 26/07/2017 09:12

OP I want to make a point here re finances before addressing your brother's behaviour.

I don't live in London so am going to guess at some figures to illustrate it. Bottom line is if you struggle to afford £3k out of your spare money then you cannot afford to rent your flat out for half the market rent.

Eg lets say market rent is £2k pcm. Mortgage/service charge lets say total to £1k, equal to the rent being paid by brother. If you charged market rent, you'd have £1k excess each month. Within 3 months, you'd have enough excess to pay for the boiler. Even if you revise the figures downwards to £1k being market rent and £500 being the charge to brother, it would only take 6 months to accumulate the £3k for the boiler. I don't mean this rudely but you seem to think you are rich but you really aren't. Most of us (including me Grin) could not conjure up £3k overnight unexpectedly so I don't mean to be rude to you, I am just trying to make a financial point. You seem to be setting fire to potential money. You sound really, really kind but excluding the emotional stuff there, the figures don't make sense to me.

Plus if you received rent excess from a proper tenant (over and above the mortgage and service charge) you'd not have to worry about relying on your husband because you'd have your own income stream.

The best solution in your position is to evict your brother and get a letting agent to manage the property. For a fee of something in the region of 10% they will find a tennant, collect the rent and call out their tradespeople when there are problems. You aren't local, this is a terrible difficulty for you. You will have tonnes more money and your stress re organising stuff will be completely removed.

Your brother sounds spoilt and moronic. He's in the U.K. but seemingly incapable of calling a plumber and then when you do this from abroad and notify him, he doesn't bother reading his emails and then bollocks you for it Hmm. Take him up on his generous offer to leave the flat.

A newborn is not an excuse for everything - would you expect him to get let off an assault charge because he has a newborn? Of course not. Same principle here. He still has to be an adult and do life admin Shock

BalloonSlayer · 26/07/2017 09:14

Oh just continue to reiterate that you are sad that your efforts at getting an emergency plumber round to them at 10am made him so angry, and ask him when he is moving out as you obviously need to get new tenants asap as you can't afford to lose money, seeing as how you are not working. Repeat like a stuck record.

rollonthesummer · 26/07/2017 09:15

He is being an arse, tell him to go. You are doing him a massive favour-yet he's acting like he's doing you one!

RainyDayBear · 26/07/2017 09:15

I agree he's possibly sleep deprived. That said I'd probably call his bluff and say "that's fine, it might be for the best."

If he backs down (I imagine he will quickly, and your SIL will probably not want to move with a small baby!) I would have a conversation about increasing the rent by £30 a week or something purely so you have a contingency fund for any future repairs.

Although you don't have to, I'd probably make your own financial situation clear to them given what he's said.

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 26/07/2017 09:17

I feel so sorry for you OPFlowers

You are doinng a nice thing for your brother and he is being a complete and utter prick.

My mum did the same thing for my sister- rented her a flat atwell under market value, my sister was constantly moaning about how her own mother was making a profit outHmm She seemed to forget the bit where she would be paying hundreds more a month.

You do not need this stress, let him leave, unless he apologises for being so bloody nasty to you.

ajandjjmum · 26/07/2017 09:18

Your circumstances have changed, and I would have thought that income from a realistic rent would help your 'family pot' at the moment.l

I would speak to your brother and say that you understand that he wants to move, and you will start to get things in place to let the property. However, so that they are under no pressure with a new baby, give them until end of October to find somewhere and move out.

And serve a Section 21 agreement in a months time to cover yourself, if he continues to behave like a dick.

I agree that he should be given some leeway with a new baby, but it's a two way thing, and you're 8 months pregnant!

YoullShootYourEyeOut · 26/07/2017 09:18

We rent privately through an agency and we are expected to liaise with contractors to arrange appointments for quotes or repairs. Landlord only comes up if they want/need to talk to a particular contractor (like when they replaced the windows). In every private rental I have had, this has been the case, how on earth can work be done without the involvement of the tenant? Your brother is being spectacularly difficult in what should be a fairly straightforward situation.