To still feel so fucked off with my parents?

[lastminuterush]

In many ways my parents were good; very loving and generous and supportive.

But there are various things that really stand out from my childhood and adolescence and I sometimes feel angry.

Like:

• clothes; we didn't lack money but I never had clothes. A few hand me downs from my brother. Some horrible stuff from the market. Occasionally I'd beg something as a birthday or Christmas present but often it was wrong - like one year I asked for jeans and I got them but they were more demim trousers with an elasticised waist and embroidery, so for much younger girls. It contributed in part to such bad bullying as I always had awful stuff.

• my dad and the camera. He used to 'stage' elaborate photographs - getting the whole family to stand somewhere stupid while he took a picture or getting you into stupid poses and then putting the photos up somewhere. He once barged in on me when I was trying to eat something and took a photo. Just made you feel self conscious and stupid. And I hate the fact that I hate most of our family photos as I remember feeling awkward and ridiculous.

• Sunday school. My brother and I were made to attend Sunday school twice a day every Sunday. This lasted until year 5 for me I think and year 7 for my brother. Then it was once a day. I think we finally rebelled completely in secondary. The people running it were completely barking mad but my dad used to chuckle in an indulgent way and seemed to find them charming

• food. Just couldn't ever have a snack without some huge row as my mum worried endlessly about me getting fat yet used to buy copious amounts of cakes and biscuits.

• my mum slagging me off to people, sometimes inventing stuff. Sometimes if I challenged her on it she'd do this silly high pitched laugh and claim it happened. Stuff like 'titter titter my DD once rang me in the middle of the night because she fell out with her friends at a sleepover'. This didn't happen! Other times she would agree it was fictitious but she was trying to make the other parent feel better because I was well behaved

• mother having a memory like an elephant. I got into a minor bit of trouble at school in year 1 - talking or something - and the teacher must have mentioned it to my grandmother at pickup and she told my mum. My mum was still talking about it when I was in secondary school.

• my mums rages. Not often but sometimes I remember her just losing it and screaming. It was frightening when I was little.

• the emphasis on academic achievement. They used to force me to do work after school and if I got things wrong they'd yell and scream; my dad would punch things in frustration. It made me feel awful.

• comparisons to other children; my mum would tell me how much better another little girl was at me for something.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel mad with them, then guilty.

(I don't want counselling; please don't suggest.)

A lot of this sounds familiar, I do feel it led to lots if self esteem and cofidence issues but try to remember they did it with good intentions I believe. Bringing mybkids up in a totally different way though. You do have to learn to out it in the past though and focus on your own future and choices now. All the best.

As someone who can personally tick all the boxes that cover child abuse I have to say that what they did was low level abuse. The thing is that you were treated less like a person and more like a possession. It might help if you look at your parents as just ordinary people and see the real them. I hope you learn to get through it in whatever way you find best for you

Omg are you my secret sister?

Your mum sounds like she has narcissistic personality traits. I have a narcissistic mother who lies, rages etc. Read this today and nearly everything resonates - lonerwolf.com/narcissistic-mother-father/

P.s. to those commenting it doesn't sound 'too bad' - you don't have to beat a child to abuse them. My childhood was violent and abusive but I don't think OP has been through less, just different abuse. Control, gaslighting, lies, put downs, unnecessary aggression etc- all symptomatic of abuse.

I agree that a lot of emotional issues can be easier to resolve yourself, but I think you need to read in order to increase your understanding. There are many books mentioned on mumsnet. Alice Miller is good although her examples of parental behaviour causing damage do cover a wide spectrum, some I agree with, some I don't.
I think us mum's always make mistakes as we are always new to each stage of mothering. I also think that your parent's have caused you harm unintentionally and whilst loving you. I knew a family when my children were small where the mum was boss and kept her family fairly socially isolated as this made her control easier. She spoilt them with gifts, but their clothes and hair were old fashioned, like the mum's. My daughter got a job and the daughter was working at the same place and was desperate to befriend my daughter and have some sort of independent social life.
So without overusing words like abusive, I think you have some work to do on yourself. You sound self aware and thoughtful, so good luck with your journey.

Wow this is heartbreaking to read OP. I can't imagine growing up in that kind of environment. I really hope you find peace over all of it xx

I wonder if you were kept away from others because of your mother's rages and bad behaviour? do you think you could raise any of this with them to try and get a better understanding of what was going on with them or is that a no-no?

Move on. But make the decision now how to move on.

I moved on ten years ago by dropping mother and stepfather from my life.

Yes, at the time, (70's/80's) compared to my friends, life was good. They had a car, double glazing, quilts, fitted carpets, jobs, caravan, colour tv, clean tidy house and plenty of food, but away from all that, in private things were different. I was never told I was loved, I got things there thought I would like, never what I asked for, I never got help with school homework but was told off every day for bad grades, my school report contained mostly mediocre reports for lessons but I got into trouble for one below average report. They told me I would never be a mother (longer story involved). They told me I was too thick for university, that I could never be an author, that I needed to pay my way in life. My wedding had to be the way they wanted it, and after I'd adopted children, they told my children, "don't listen to your mother, she's stupid."

I was sent to Sunday school as that was their "bedroom olympics" time. And I was slapped. For anything. Particularly if I complained she was hurting me when brushing my long hair. That would earn me a slap with the wooden hairbrush (and then I'd get another one for crying) and eventually, she cut it all off in a pageboy style.

Walking away from them was the best thing I ever did.

I had a sister, she was my stepfather and mother's child. She was born when I was 3 and she died 8 months later.

I am convinced that mother hated the fact that I lived (being the product of her failed marriage) and my sister died. But I will never know for sure.

My parents are both dead.

To be honest though, I doubt it. I really do think they both thought we had a wonderful childhood. A little like when people go on safari and marvel at the beauty of the animals when in fact it's a harsh world out there - hunt or starve, run or be eaten!

And yes, I think I have moved on in a sense, but as I've explained, it's hard to properly do that when my transition to adulthood was so impossibly sad.

Everyone can pull bad memories out of childhood and dwell on them, no matter how well-intentioned the parents.

However, my over-riding memories (and ongoing memories) of my parents are not their mistakes - that we all make - but their love and devotion. If your recollections are your main memories then maybe they weren't that great. I know 100% that my parents love me, even when they still get it wrong sometimes.

lastminuterush I am so sorry.

I'm just at the end of page two and reading all your posts and trying to read others' posts too.

For what it is worth, I think your childhood was abusive and you are trying to make sense of it in your own head. You don't want to come from an abusive home so you use words like " many ways my parents were good; very loving and generous and supportive."

Yet you go on to describe parents who were not particularly loving, not generous with food or clothes or money for food or clothes and not supportive in that they either were unaware of the bad bullying. You even feel your parents made it worse. " It contributed in part to such bad bullying as I always had awful stuff."

Did you tell them you were being bullied and they did not help, or tried and failed, or did you not tell them because you felt they would not help. Did you expect to know and feel let down by the fact they did not?

Your desire to avoid counselling is a shame as that is one area where you could relatively explore this and may find resolution to the issues.

"They made it difficult for us to have and to keep friends. Didn't like us socialising outside the home at all really.

Sometimes I think - was it done on purpose?"

Why do you think they sent you to Sunday school (twice a Sunday!) if they were not believers and why do you think they isolated you on purpose?

"I can't imagine yelling in a tiny child's face and punching the table in rage because they got their sums wrong ... just seems it was always volatile, looking back, someone was always about to explode." That is abusive, so you don't need to brush it under the carpet because that doesn't tend to work well with hurts from the past.

lastminuterush I think counselling could help. I know you object "Because the people I know who went into counselling are very troubled individuals. I'm not sure it has any scientific basis. It seems to me it's based on talking, which I can do, but it's an expensive talk."

People who access counselling do have issues and problems. Talking may help unlock what you have locked away. It is hard and troubling but it allow you to know deep down, that the things that happened to you are not your fault. Brushing dirt under the carpet doesn't make it go away and eventually you trip over the massive bump in the carpet.

But I am fine, Italian

Really and truly I am fine.

I do not have money to throw at the problem even if we agree there is a problem which I don't think there is. I would agree there WAS a problem once but I've 'outgrown' my troubled history so to speak.

Also I have only talked about my parents' bad qualities here, not the good ones.

Please don't waste your adult years getting upset about what happened to your as a child and teenager, what is in the past can't be changed!! Just remember look after yourself treat yourself well and be kind to yourself and other people. Always do your duty to your parents visit regularly, this way you will not fill any quilt if they pass away. My friend did not have the best of parents and really stoped seeing them and lost contact with them as she was so angry with them. When her mother died she was the one left feeling that she was the bad person not her mother. Just remember not to be like your mother you are better then that.

I'm getting the feeling people aren't reading the thread.

OP losing your mum as a teenager is truly horrific, and her being an alcoholic too, how awful. I see you had counselling so sorry for mentioning that again. I have had such good experiences of counselling that I am a big fan but I know not everyone feels the same!

QuiteChic the idea of forgiving them may be helpful, but I think the OP could work through more of this becasue she needs to know exactly what she wopudl be forgiving them for. Plus, forgiveness would be for the OP and not for them, whethe rthey are alive or dead. you can forgive the dead, it all goes on in your head and is about laying down the anger and hate but not about saying it didn't/doesn't matter, IMHO because it matters hugely.

Luncharmstrong, and Mummyoflittledragon, I am so sorry for your experiences. Oldraver I am so sorry you had the experiences you had too, you sound very strong and brave - all of you who have suffered so much, well done for moving on, I am sure it was hard and took much work on your parts.

lastminuterush "I'm getting the feeling people aren't reading the thread."

Sorry I am still reading it, I am not all he way through yet.

"But I am fine, Italian

Really and truly I am fine."

If you are fine that is great. And if you are fine you do not need counselling.

"Also I have only talked about my parents' bad qualities here, not the good ones."

You said a while back, "One of the problems with my parents was that they actually were lovely people - we always saw the 'worst' of them."

What does this mean, do you mean you genuinely knew them to be lovely or that you were told by them or others they were lovely, so feel they must have been.

I will keep on reading and feel free to ignore me. I feel you had a very hard time and maybe counselling is not right but it is not the only way to work through things. Maybe this thread is your way of working through things. XX

It wasn't aimed at you Italian, it was the poster urging me to keep visiting my parents so I don't feel guilty when they die!

I have 'forgiven' them, I mean, what is forgiveness? It's conceding mistakes are made and moving on from them, that's obviously hard for me.

But as people they don't bother me.

However, as I've said, I had a chaotic start to adult life and that led to bad choices which led to bad choices, it can be hard to get out of the downward spiral. It doesn't mean I secretly hate my parents but I do think they didn't help matters.

This resonates with me, in so many ways. My single mother loved us very much, but I often felt disrespected by her, my feelings dismissed, made to feel unimportant, silly. She often still makes me feel like this to this day. She would always insist in total respect and adherence because she is my mother, and would tell me that even when she was wrong she was right. I always doubted my self, and still do when I am with her. She always talked down to me, and even now I seem to be the butt of many of her jokes. Our family was always very volatile and unstable, but she would just roll her eyes and tell me to stop being so sensitive, and that in fact there must something wrong with me, and not the abusive types in my family. As I get older I seem to get angrier about this stuff, especially now I have my own little ones, whom I would never, ever, treat them like this. Even now, she won't acknowledge any wrong doing, any mistakes etc. She still keeps saying that she is my mother and I must totally respect her regardless of anything. No, I don't. I realised respect has to be earned, and not given out of fear and servitude. OP maybe distance your self from them, for a while? Work this out in your mind, and try to let it go and move forward.

Sorry, OP, but to me it sounds abusive. Haven't RTFT, but even so.

Just because things don't meet the low standard required to escape SS clutches doesn't make things good.

I had travel sickness badly, and still do. The thought that my parents would have ignored that sounds horrific.

Sometimes we had crap clothes - but that was due in our case to no money.

Sending you to sunday school when they are not religious sounds awful.

I can just about tolerate the idea if the parents were religious, but only just.

I was smacked, sometimes, but this was 1970s, and we (there were four of us) were very argumentative.

Heartoverheadhouse said "I find it interesting how you put the mildest issues first in your post. Maybe blocking out some of the other stuff." I think you are trying to come to terms with it all.

OP Your brother and you both made suicide attempts in the 11-13 years. "No one seemed bothered." This is truly abusive parenting.

It's hard to read this because it sounds like it does bother you still but then you say you are cured. I am glad that working with children has been helpful to you.

I just want to wish you all the very best and I will PM you, I really hope the future will be brighter, you had a very tough start.

I wish you all the very best and hope you will find peace or continue to feel peace.

WhiteMane

YANBU As a parent of a certain age (almost 70) I would say that they were certainly abusive, manipulative and controlling and I wonder if that was because they did not know any better or had bad experiences?
NOT that this is an excuse!!

What were your maternal and paternal grandparents like towards your parents and you, if you had any contact? What are your siblings memories and views? This feeling of you being confused is common when living with people who have narcissistic personality dis orders as they, in their own minds, think they are being fair and supportive when in fact it is about how THEY need to be perceived. Look up online the traits of a narcissus, it made me realise what a bad marriage I was in, constantly being on the 'back foot' never knowing if the 'dig' was meant or was it in my mind! Please talk to some one, it helps clarify things.

There's a book parenting from the inside out. It looks at exploring your own childhood as you become parents and understanding the impact it has had on you.

I think you'd find it useful

Even though you don't yet have children ito is still a really good book and looking at relationships