To still feel so fucked off with my parents?

[lastminuterush]

In many ways my parents were good; very loving and generous and supportive.

But there are various things that really stand out from my childhood and adolescence and I sometimes feel angry.

Like:

• clothes; we didn't lack money but I never had clothes. A few hand me downs from my brother. Some horrible stuff from the market. Occasionally I'd beg something as a birthday or Christmas present but often it was wrong - like one year I asked for jeans and I got them but they were more demim trousers with an elasticised waist and embroidery, so for much younger girls. It contributed in part to such bad bullying as I always had awful stuff.

• my dad and the camera. He used to 'stage' elaborate photographs - getting the whole family to stand somewhere stupid while he took a picture or getting you into stupid poses and then putting the photos up somewhere. He once barged in on me when I was trying to eat something and took a photo. Just made you feel self conscious and stupid. And I hate the fact that I hate most of our family photos as I remember feeling awkward and ridiculous.

• Sunday school. My brother and I were made to attend Sunday school twice a day every Sunday. This lasted until year 5 for me I think and year 7 for my brother. Then it was once a day. I think we finally rebelled completely in secondary. The people running it were completely barking mad but my dad used to chuckle in an indulgent way and seemed to find them charming

• food. Just couldn't ever have a snack without some huge row as my mum worried endlessly about me getting fat yet used to buy copious amounts of cakes and biscuits.

• my mum slagging me off to people, sometimes inventing stuff. Sometimes if I challenged her on it she'd do this silly high pitched laugh and claim it happened. Stuff like 'titter titter my DD once rang me in the middle of the night because she fell out with her friends at a sleepover'. This didn't happen! Other times she would agree it was fictitious but she was trying to make the other parent feel better because I was well behaved

• mother having a memory like an elephant. I got into a minor bit of trouble at school in year 1 - talking or something - and the teacher must have mentioned it to my grandmother at pickup and she told my mum. My mum was still talking about it when I was in secondary school.

• my mums rages. Not often but sometimes I remember her just losing it and screaming. It was frightening when I was little.

• the emphasis on academic achievement. They used to force me to do work after school and if I got things wrong they'd yell and scream; my dad would punch things in frustration. It made me feel awful.

• comparisons to other children; my mum would tell me how much better another little girl was at me for something.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel mad with them, then guilty.

(I don't want counselling; please don't suggest.)

My mother was a strange parent, always in a bad mood, quick to put us down, never ever gave praise and was completely approachable...she's a good gran now though. You have to close the door on the past and press on with your future. Dwelling on it or dragging it up serves no purpose. That's how she was, that's her problem, she missed out on having her children chat to her. I just know I will never make her mistakes. I have forgiven her (in my head, we still don't speak about emotions or anything).

Unapproachable...definitely not approachable

I also feel in a parallel life I am in a happy, supportive relationship rather than struggling on my own, and I know my problems in relationships came from my parents' behaviour. I am in a position now to be in a good relationship but the demands of work and lone parenting don't make that very easy at the moment.

Interesting what someone said about the war. I looked a while ago to see if I could find any research about the effects of growing up during war on a generation's / next generation's behaviour, but I couldn't find much, only the effects on children at the time not children as adults later on. I think my mum in particular was probably quite traumatised by war. My dad was probably more traumatised by his dad's drunkenness and violence. I feel proud though that passing abuse in down the generations seems to have stopped with me and as others have said it's made me a much more sensitive parent.

KickAss - Yes I'm sure now that my Dmum's issues around food were a throwback to rationing during WW2. She was 12 when the war broke out so has very vivid memories of rationing and food shortages,plus the fact that her dad was out of work for 6 years,from when she was 5 years old until 11. So I suppose the spectre of being short of money always hovered over her. I always remember her as being a bit obsessed with food. I recall my exH saying that she was always worrying about her next meal,and more recently my DD saying she was obsessed with her stomach.
I also found out that my Ddad suffered physical and mental abuse at the hands of his own father. His Ddad was gassed during WW1,which apparently sent him a bit 'mad'. He was prone to screaming rages and would sometimes chase my Ddad out of the house brandishing a fire poker. And he can recall his Dmum locking herself in the outside toilet during his rages.

Sounds like your grandfather had PTSD, aka Shellshock. As so many did. Patrick Stewart is interesting on that, btw.

I've never had counselling about this - a mixture of talking in RL, reading on here, thinking etc have helped me draw my own conclusions. I could be completely wrong, but they're what get me through.

I can empathise with what you are saying. Things might not seem that bad and other will almost certainly say they have had worse or that there are lots of positives, but you know that. And judging by the number of replies it strikes a chord with many.

I think its a bit like growing up wearing uneven shoes. There are lots of weird stresses that eventually cause pain all around the body as you adapt in order to walk as normally as you can. Eventually there is nothing for it but to take some time out to rethink and readjust.

Just accept they did their best for you, and that some of it, with hindsight, ended up not being the best thing for you, or what you would have chosen, but they loved you and tried,

user1497480444 You seem to be going out of your way to make excuses for these people, why is that?

Honestly, a lot of it sounds quite horrible. I had a few similarities, things like being made to wear full school uniform (including a tie) to a state primary school, which made me a freak. I don't recall ever having a mother-daughter relationship (whatever that is) with my mother, or having any relationship at all with my father, who was more of an absence than a presence.
They were the products of their own (fairly tough) upbringings, though, more victorian (era) than anything else.
Children were blank slates, who all like some things and hate others. It doesn't matter, though.
I'm not sure I was ever really a person to either of my parents.

I really like this way of thinking about it I think its a bit like growing up wearing uneven shoes. There are lots of weird stresses that eventually cause pain all around the body as you adapt in order to walk as normally as you can.

SummerKelly apparently the psychological effects of war last for three generations.

I feel proud though that passing abuse in down the generations seems to have stopped with me

SummerKelly apparently the psychological effects of war last for three generations

if you are talking about epigenetics, then you haven't understood the basics.

1. Your epigenetic inheritance is an accumulation of your mothers experiences, and her mothers and her mothers. It is ONLY passed through the maternal line, there is no influence at all from the paternal side.

1. It is set in stone at birth, and nothing you do can change it.

1. It has a POSITIVE EFFECT, not a negative one. It is a mechanism that enhances the offspring's chance of survival in the environment experienced by the preceding generations.

I'm not a Christian but there is a line in the bible about the punishment for a sin being passed on even onto the third and fourth generation. As I've grown older I've felt the truth of that. I think it takes three or four generations for a trauma to totally disappear from a family.

user and MumBod

I am just talking about having a strong and supportive relationship with my DD in which we are both able to talk openly about things good and bad and I support her in who she is rather than who I want her to be. I'm not perfect, I'm sure there are things that she'll look back in and think weren't great, but I think she has developed lifelong skills e.g. to be able to step back and analyse relationships, to identify what's wrong and apologise and fix it if necessary, and to recognise that there is generally no one "right" way to do things and that you can work cooperatively to sort things out rather than it being a battle of wills. None of these things were available to me in my childhood. She also talks to me openly about stuff, says that she's had a good childhood, and that her friends don't have such good relationships with their mums. She's much more emotionally mature now in her teens than I was in my 20s because I've worked really hard to sort myself out.

Of course not everything will go smoothly for her, there may still be effects of my past that I'm not aware of, but she hasn't grown up with the constant fear, confusion and self hatred that I did.

They sound both nerdy and mad to me, and your mother sounds like a cow.

I'm intrigued as to why you don't want therapy, even though that is basically what you are asking for and doing on here. Talking about how you feel and asking for advice.

You should know a secret - most highly successful people use some form of therapy to perform better or resolve problems which are causing them issues. Why deny yourself when this is clearly on your mind?

My dad in particular came across as gregarious and outgoing. I do think he sometimes misjudged his audience - would go off on long rambling stories that often weren't relevant - but that became more marked in his later years really.

I don't want therapy because it doesn't help at this stage. I don't feel bad about it other than that a lot of happiness has been denied to me which upsets me sometimes.

I'm still baffled by this one,
My mum was quite old fashioned but lovely and it was hard to get nice clothes, I did get some but never quite enough .She never wore make up or fashionable clothes and even to this day if I'm dolled up for an evening out she doesn't like how I look.
She will compliment me when I look a natural mess with full clothes on and no make up !
Anyway, periods, sex were never spoken about
but one thing mum did has always upset me .

When i was 11/12 in the first year seniors I developed boobs, quite big and she never bought me a bra . Not sure why I didn't ask but these personal things weren't spoken about.
Anyway in the ( very hit )summer I used to wear a thick jumper over shirt so you couldn't see my boobs as they were clearly visible through the shirt.
Even worse , my dad came in to my room and told me in hushed tones that you could see through my shirt and I would have to wear a bra if I wanted to wear the shirt .
I was very embarrassed and then wore jumper.
Why the fuck didn't he tell my mum . Indeed why the fuck didn't she buy me one.

I was given very little pocket money so never had the funds to buy a bra.
My best friends mum one day sent me one of my friends old bras and mum gave me it and muttered something about I could have this if I wanted.
I used to wear it on a Friday for Pe in secret.
I would love to be enlightened.
Also when I was 17 my dad barged in the bedroom when I sneaked a boyfriend in . Chucked him out with no clothes on and the ne t day I was taken out for a walk and dad had a clipboard to take notes and I was questioned.

The only thing my mum said later that week was a veery hurried
" if you are going to sleep around you had better go on the pill "
That's it . They are old fashioned and repressed I think.
They have mellowed but I'm still angry about these things

Sorry for typos *

"I am just talking about having a strong and supportive relationship with my DD in which we are both able to talk openly about things good and bad and I support her in who she is rather than who I want her to be. I'm not perfect, I'm sure there are things that she'll look back in and think weren't great, but I think she has developed lifelong skills e.g. to be able to step back and analyse relationships, to identify what's wrong and apologise and fix it if necessary, and to recognise that there is generally no one "right" way to do things and that you can work cooperatively to sort things out rather than it being a battle of wills. None of these things were available to me in my childhood. She also talks to me openly about stuff, says that she's had a good childhood, and that her friends don't have such good relationships with their mums. She's much more emotionally mature now in her teens than I was in my 20s because I've worked really hard to sort myself out."

Totally identify with what Summerkelly says here.

The overwhelming message I received from my dad was that 'my views are right.' The way we did things as a family were 'right.' Anyone who did things differently (down to the tv programmes they watched, where they went on holiday, how they dressed) was wrong. My dad was very judgmental and my mum just deferred to him as the man of the house.

As a child you soak up your parents' attitudes. In retrospect I can see that this probably stemmed from innate lack of self confidence... people who are confident are able to embrace others views and ideas.
This feeling which pervaded our house made it very hard for me to question my dad's views. Ours wasn't a house where open communication took place.

Like summerKelly, one thing i feel dh and I have got right is that we always talked to our children; we weren't afraid to show that there are differing views on many subjects. We never tried to pigeonhole them into holding a particular belief or choosing a specific path.

I'm sure we've got many short comings too- no one can be the perfect parent- but I do feel relieved that our now grown-up children have always felt comfortable to be themselves with us.

I feel a bit like my entire relationship with my parents has been kind of putting on an act and projecting the image they want to see. Anyone else feel like that?

lastminute I get you.

I went into the world of work and adult relationships with very little self-confidence, and I wonder what might have been if that hadn't been the case.

I've had some counselling over the years and it has been varyingly helpful - from not at all to very*. But what really stops me going mad is coming on here where there are plenty of other people who have had similar experiences. Sometimes it feels like wallowing but what else can you do when you are emotionally thigh deep in it?

*counselling only became really helpful when I got caught up in a traumatic and drawn-out family situation, which laid bare a lot of stuff that I had not known or understood before. I now consider that I've been very lucky because I got my answers. Most people will never know why their parents did these things.

gubby your post has reminded me that my mother also refused to buy me a bra. Like you I was quite well developed and definitely needed one. I remember the girls in my class writing on my desk and on my books "where is your bra?". Eventually my boobs got so big that she did eventually buy me one which I wore until it pretty much fell to pieces - it was a good 2 years after I should have had one though. She also insisted on bathing me until I was 12 (and I hit puberty at 11).

She once said that "she likes little children; they aren't so much fun once they develop minds of their own" - which I am seeing playing out with her grandchildren - mine are now 11 and 13 and she has absolutely no idea how to interact with them, whilst she fawns over and talks incessantly about my niece who is 7. So I wonder if there was an element of trying to keep me as a little girl as I grew up. But that's just another manifestation of wanting her children to be as she'd decided they should be, not as they actually were.

I went into the world of work and adult relationships with very little self-confidence, and I wonder what might have been if that hadn't been the case

This for me, exactly, straight to work from school, very little clue as to the real world. I had very little adult interaction other than with them which was dysfunctional anyway.They charged me most of my paltry wages for rent and yet didn't need to as they could easily afford not to. Then they would buy something super expensive or go on holiday and say well Fluffy, if YOU save you can buy nice things.

As what I saw then and still see as a sick joke, they bought me a heap of junk car for my 18th, that was not road worthy and needed lots of work costing a lot of money to get it on the road, money which they knew full well I would never have as they took most of it. Same with siblings.

I can think of so many examples I would be here all day and just get more upset and angry.

Needless to say our DC wanted and still want for nothing yet are all well educated and hard working, lovely people. We wouldn't dream of charging them rent and giving them shit gifts that are not really gifts. I look back and think wtf were you thinking to treat children that way?

In my family there was/is a very strong sense of "knowing your place". This resulted in a weird thing of I should work hard and do my best, but when I actually did really well (I'm quite academic and often came out top in my class in tests) that had to be belittled. So it's taken until now for me to see that I am actually pretty bright - like doing an MA (which I found easy and did really well at) - and have confidence in that. My parents insisted that I went to college (my mum wasn't allowed because she's a girl) but I wasn't expected to try for anything better. I left my degree early because I wasn't sure I could do the honors part of it and became a teacher. That's as far as they wanted me to go. Now I realize I could have been PhD/professor material. I would have liked that opportunity but I never even knew it was something that I had potential for. It wasn't even 'on the table' of ideas for what to do in life. I remember that when I was 7 there were some tests done at school, and my mum told me that I'd done phenomenally well - like the best results the teacher had ever seen - but still, my mum got embarrassed if I did better than other children, and she didn't like me doing better than my sister. To this day I can't play board games as I get way too embarrassed and feel terrible if I'm doing better than other people.

In fact, the first time I started teaching A-levels, my mum asked if my grey matter was up to it? No well done on the new job or anything. Now I actually do some work with university professors, training new teachers, (very tiny part of my work) but I wish I'd at least had the option to do more in life, even if I'd decided not to or messed it up.

It sounds crazy, because I went to college, but I didn't even register that 'professor' was a job that real people did. That could have been me!

People are complicated. Just because your parents loved you and were generous doesn't mean they didn't emotionally abuse you at times.

Talking about it really helps. I had counselling and it helped my relationship with my parents. It helped me see that you can love the parent but not the behaviour. Counselling also helps acknowledge the trauma you experienced.

Because it is trauma. It's YOUR trauma. Talking it through and acknowledging it helps process your feelings. It helps you accept it happened and enables you to move past it. It becomes something that happened to you and not something that defines you.

Asking on here if your parents were abusive doesn't really help as you there is no definitive measurement on what is traumatic and abusive for an individual.

In my family there was/is a very strong sense of "knowing your place".

Yes to this! Even recently, my DM told me that it was my 'job to bring the grandchildren to see the grandparents'. I asked why and was told that that is the way things are done.

She's got so many rules about how things should be done, and anyone who does things differently is doing them wrong.

Unfortunately, this extended to me when I was breast feeding DC1. Because I didn't do it the way she did it (because the breast feeding advice has changed since the 70s), I was doing it wrong, and everytime DC1 cried it was because he was thirsty and I should give him some water. Even when I showed her the WHO leaflet which said not to give water, she said it was rubbish, what do they know?

This was ironic since she didn't breast feed me at all, and fed my brother for 2 weeks. But she's the expert on it 30+ years later!

My parents are dead but I could probably write a similar lists of their 'wrongs' in my eyes. Yes, they did some things wrong - being compared to others unfavourably, being bought unfashionable clothes (they were older parents), making me go to places I didn't want to go (heck, even my kids went to religion school until Year 6 - kill me now!!). I think the main issue I had was feeling 'different' or a 'poor relation' and I still have that in me now. Prob why I turn a blind eye to some things (swearing, but they are teens now) & that I'll buy clothes the kids want (within reason in terms of cost).
However, I do believe my parents did their best in their own way. It's weird as also I was smacked by my dad, it's more the 'being different' thing that has stuck with me (I suppose most kids were smacked to some degree in the 70s/80s as corporal punishment was still legal).

there is no definitive measurement on what is traumatic and abusive for an individual.

Spot on! What one person might brush off another might find very troubling. It depends very much on your very individual circumstances.

Your father was bang out of order for raging at you - my dad was the same and I still remember being frightened.

Your mother sounds manipulative and, at times, out of control.

My mum bought me awful, babyish clothes too!

Even if they were mainly loving, they still upset you.