To still feel so fucked off with my parents?

[lastminuterush]

In many ways my parents were good; very loving and generous and supportive.

But there are various things that really stand out from my childhood and adolescence and I sometimes feel angry.

Like:

• clothes; we didn't lack money but I never had clothes. A few hand me downs from my brother. Some horrible stuff from the market. Occasionally I'd beg something as a birthday or Christmas present but often it was wrong - like one year I asked for jeans and I got them but they were more demim trousers with an elasticised waist and embroidery, so for much younger girls. It contributed in part to such bad bullying as I always had awful stuff.

• my dad and the camera. He used to 'stage' elaborate photographs - getting the whole family to stand somewhere stupid while he took a picture or getting you into stupid poses and then putting the photos up somewhere. He once barged in on me when I was trying to eat something and took a photo. Just made you feel self conscious and stupid. And I hate the fact that I hate most of our family photos as I remember feeling awkward and ridiculous.

• Sunday school. My brother and I were made to attend Sunday school twice a day every Sunday. This lasted until year 5 for me I think and year 7 for my brother. Then it was once a day. I think we finally rebelled completely in secondary. The people running it were completely barking mad but my dad used to chuckle in an indulgent way and seemed to find them charming

• food. Just couldn't ever have a snack without some huge row as my mum worried endlessly about me getting fat yet used to buy copious amounts of cakes and biscuits.

• my mum slagging me off to people, sometimes inventing stuff. Sometimes if I challenged her on it she'd do this silly high pitched laugh and claim it happened. Stuff like 'titter titter my DD once rang me in the middle of the night because she fell out with her friends at a sleepover'. This didn't happen! Other times she would agree it was fictitious but she was trying to make the other parent feel better because I was well behaved

• mother having a memory like an elephant. I got into a minor bit of trouble at school in year 1 - talking or something - and the teacher must have mentioned it to my grandmother at pickup and she told my mum. My mum was still talking about it when I was in secondary school.

• my mums rages. Not often but sometimes I remember her just losing it and screaming. It was frightening when I was little.

• the emphasis on academic achievement. They used to force me to do work after school and if I got things wrong they'd yell and scream; my dad would punch things in frustration. It made me feel awful.

• comparisons to other children; my mum would tell me how much better another little girl was at me for something.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel mad with them, then guilty.

(I don't want counselling; please don't suggest.)

A lot of this resonates with me thanks for starting the thread. I think some of it was down to the culture of the time and coming from parents that had been through war and poverty, coupled with society not talking about problems and wanting to be respectable at all costs and not seeing children as people in their own right. At least nowadays for all its faults people are being more self aware and also is easier to talk and children are seen as beings with their own rights.
My dad was very four legs for, two legs bad. If you stick to his rules of not smoking, drinking, going to church and working a lot you're a 'good person'. Very black and white. Didn't matter that he flew into rages at the drop of a hat for no apparent reason, beat his kids when he was feeling frustrated, criticised every achievement and demanded perfection according to very arbitrary rules and standards. My mum didn't like it but deferred to it as he's father he works very hard and doesn't spend his money in the pub. Id have preferred some of my friends fathers who did go to the pub occasionally and worked less hard, but were more chilled and less wound up and talked to their children!!
Even at 42 years of age despite having a good life I lack confidence and fall apart if I have to deal with a controlling perfectionist, I feel like I'm right back there.

Plus, he was abusive! But the prevailing norms at the time made it harder to call out abuse, especially the covert type, so it makes it all the more confusing and conflicting.

Right!
Sounds like there are real issues surrounding your upbringing. People saying 'oh just get over it' does not help.
If OP is talking about it, clearly she is finding it hard to 'just move on'.
There is one vital thing in what you have said; the incipient anger in your parents and the fact they could explode in rage...
This has led you to think of other areas of control and to see them as insidious. I can see why.
It is not very pleasant for a child to be treading on eggshells or have stories made up about events which never happened.
In fact the last generally called gaslighting.
I think you loved your parents and they loved you but there was something deeply wrong, they disturbed you.
I do not pretend to know what that would be but I think you might explore that via some form of therapy.
I totally identify with you not knowing 'Were they good? Were they bad?'. The truth is some parts of their behavouurs was totally unacceptable... how are you now? Hope you are having a happy life.

I never questioned my childhood (born mid 60s) until I had my own DC, and then I realised just how crap my parents were. The smacks, the shouting, the bullying, the control. I look at my own DC and wonder how the hell anyone could treat young kids the way my DPs treated me and my DBro. But the up-side is that it has made me think very hard about being a parent myself and I've raised my own family very differently. I'm less angry now but it been a long journey.

Italiangreyhound I know, I'm trying to make sure DD has a relationship with family without being involved in the drama (NM's side are pretty much all child-like and suffer the negative behaviours of this). I might have to have a talk with DD at some stage when she's older if NM tries to involve her in her narcissistic games. But for now at this age it's OK. I considered NC and was NC through my entire pregnancy. I may go NC again in future, who knows. All depends if NM can behave herself well enough. Thanks though hugs x

IDoDaChaCha I am glad to see you are aware and cautious. I really feel any relationship that is bad for you is likely to be bad for your child. There is a space between no contact and regular/lots of contact, I think it is usually called low contact. In addition there is a thing called grey rock, where you make your contact as uninteresting as grey rock.

Don't be afraid to reduce contact if it is bad for you. What is bad for you is unlikely to be good for your dd in the long run, IMHO. If worried, speak to a counsellor and take professional advice.

Italiangreyhound low contact is what we have now; I recently reduced it from Fri-sun evening (NM staying over!!) to just Saturdays 12 noon to 7pm. I told NM I wanted more space from her and didn't want her staying at our house as we were clashing. I also said I didn't think she could cope with looking after DD all weekend as I'd noticed her becoming snappy and impatient. Her behaviour has been better now contact has been further limited. Although there is a marked difference in how DD relates to us both; I'm a very relaxed parent and DD has quite a lot of tantrums around NM due to her micromanagement. I can tell NM is jealous of mine & DD's relationship (typical, a narcissist is always jealous if theyre not the centre of attention). NM is loving towards DD (and DSis; just not me) so I'm not worried but if I see evidence of her changing towards DD in a negative light I'll cut contact. I'm only in contact for DD so if it becomes detrimental to her it stops straight away. Relationship between myself and NM has recently become grey rock from my side; emotional wall. Because I don't have any warm feelings towards her. I'm polite and friendly, as I would be with anyone. But there are no feelings, no love, coming from me to NM. I keep NM at arms length emotionally and don't believe a word she says (pathological liar). I have been suffering some anxiety recently before seeing NM and/or DSis as my fight or flight kicks in- and mine is wired to fight! But each time my management of the situation; polite and friendly seems to work with whatever delusions they may have about us as a 'family unit'. I agonised for a long time before deciding to have a baby as I didn't want them to have my relatives, I nearly didn't have a baby at all because of who her family would be. But I decided I was strong enough to be her whole family if necessary to go NC so I went ahead. I allow these relationships only for DD's sake and I think it's acceptable, if unfortunate, that I shoulder the discomfort. It's either this way or DD has no Nana or auntie. NM and DSis are very selfish: DSis didn't speak to me for 2.5yrs after a fall out in which she said unspeakable things ("you're not my real family" etc: we are half sisters). Personally, I can take or leave NM and DSis. Life would probably be easier for me not seeing them, but as a parent I have to put DD first. If NM and/ or DSis behaviour spiralled I'd have no hesitation in cutting them out of our lives. I've proved as much going NC for long periods of time in which they have missed experiences around/with DD they won't get back. I'm not using DD as a weapon (although I'm sure NM tells people I do) I'm using myself as a shield, if that makes sense. I would love to have a loving, 'normal' mother and sister but life didn't turn out that way so I'm doing the best with what I've got and sticking to clear boundaries. It's obvious to both NM and DSis - I only have eyes for DD. If they want to be part of our lives, cool - just be nice and everything will be fine but if you can't be nice- fuck off. I have someone precious to prioritise now x

Ido is that every Saturday for 7 hours? If so, I don't think that is low contact. I would really advise you see a counsellor and work out if tgiscontact is good for you. If not I can't see it is good for your dd. you say her behaviour changes around visit time, how? Or was that your behaviour, or both?
Anyway, I really don't want to pry. I just feel sorry you are going through this.

For your dd I think being in relationship with two women who your mum didlikess intensely (for good reason) and one of them is a narcissist who lies, is not going to be a positive experience in the long run.

Sorry typos

this contact
And

which your mum dislikes meaning someone you rightly dislike - from the child's perspective.

Anyway. I am thinking of you and your dd. Seven hours in your own home is a long time. even if it is only once a month. if you can affotd it I'd move to tea out in a cafe or a visit to soft play etc or a pub lunch. So if things get hard you can leave.

.I think you sound like a lovely, generous person. I really think you need to put yourself first. But anyway, I just hope all will be well

Italiangreyhound It's every Saturday. NM behaves herself when she's here: her attacks are more behind the scenes, badmouthing me to other relatives and sabotaging any relationship they may want with me for e.g. That's low contact compared to NM being here all the time when DD was tiny and then staying over fri-sun every week. I don't spend all that time with them, I hang out in my bedroom and catch up on beauty stuff and watch crap TV I can hear everything from the lounge as we're in a flat. I don't feel uncomfortable with DD being alone with NM as she has a lot of love for her; like most narcissistic mothers they have a scapegoat (me) a golden child (DSis) and there the divisions begin. As I said NM might try to interfere with my relationship with DD when DD is older but I'd go NC at the first hint of that, after talking to DD about the situation. As DD is so young it isn't an issue now. I've had 8 months of private therapy an hour a week re my childhood which did me the world of good (this was a few years ago, before I had DD). Therapy helped me get rid of rage problems to do with NM because the therapist 'heard' me (I initially went looking for anger management but all therapists I interviewed, to find the right one for me, said it was unresolved childhood trauma). I know the contact isn't good for me but I'm prepared to deal with the low level stress of that so DD can have a Nana and an auntie. It's just my expectation of a shitshow, a narcissist keeps you on edge waiting for their next attack. It's how they are. The grey rock strategy works well for me in that I don't share anything with NM that she could use against me, I don't ask for her help so she can't throw it back in my face etc. Dealing with a narcissist long term isnt a plan, I fully expect NM to try something in future - and that's when it'll end. In the meantime I'm showing NM the cause and effect of fucking with me; the more trouble you cause the less involved you get to be: no dramas ensue from me, just further detachment. As I've said it is a shame things are this way but I accept you can't change people. NM knows how much nicer it is to get on well with me; I'm the more loving, emotional one of me and DSis. I think she's starting to get the message that her behaviour is causing her to lose out and it's not destroying me. So perhaps less impetus to pursue it. Or maybe she's plotting my demise as we speak! The point is, I couldn't care less- there's nothing she can do that she hasn't already done and I now regard her as the pathological liar she is so I'll never believe a word she says again. Basically, she has no power over me. I don't behave in a childish way myself so DD doesn't see how I feel about NM. I'll allow the relationship as long as it benefits DD. I've made the decision to see how it goes, so that's what I'll do. I don't and won't allow any behaviour that upsets me or DD. X

I do I hope all will continue well and you sound like you have totally got your mum's number!

Thank you Italian since I've been ignoring her she's been emailing me tips (Aldi's chalk paint and vintage sale?) and has taken us out for dinner. It annoys me that things can't just be simple and straightforward, I hate people who plays games. But heigh ho some people are just twats - whether they're your parents or not

I do i really agree with your ideas. Is it like ignoring the bad behaviour and rewarding the good? But like you do with children?

I've been so lucky my parents, now deceased, were basically good, kind and reasonably 'normal'. And even I had sone 'issues' around food which may have had some input from my mum's own weird views on food and eating.

Good luck with all your plans Ido.

Italian absolutely, 'parentification' I think is the term, learned from another MN user. I've had to 'parent' both parents for different reasons my whole life so when people warned me being a LP would be hard I laughed; I have prior experience I'm glad your parents were nice, that's good I hope DD thinks of me as nice too x

I'm sorry, but HOW OLD ARE YOU??
So let me get this straight. You didn't have the same opinion on clothing as your parents. So what?
You complain that your mum bought you cake.... Hmmm... And not the stuff you wanted. I see how that's a huge issue...
Your dad try to be funny and making memories that obviously don't mean anything to you!
Sunday school. So they are religious which again how is that bad?? I get it sometimes parents go over board and the children rebell against it yes the children see it differently but surely when you grow up you see that they only wanted the best for you
And education. Seriously? Are you actually complaining that your parents want the best education for you??

YABVU so my suggestion is: grow up! Only a child complains about stuff like this