To still feel so fucked off with my parents?

[lastminuterush]

In many ways my parents were good; very loving and generous and supportive.

But there are various things that really stand out from my childhood and adolescence and I sometimes feel angry.

Like:

• clothes; we didn't lack money but I never had clothes. A few hand me downs from my brother. Some horrible stuff from the market. Occasionally I'd beg something as a birthday or Christmas present but often it was wrong - like one year I asked for jeans and I got them but they were more demim trousers with an elasticised waist and embroidery, so for much younger girls. It contributed in part to such bad bullying as I always had awful stuff.

• my dad and the camera. He used to 'stage' elaborate photographs - getting the whole family to stand somewhere stupid while he took a picture or getting you into stupid poses and then putting the photos up somewhere. He once barged in on me when I was trying to eat something and took a photo. Just made you feel self conscious and stupid. And I hate the fact that I hate most of our family photos as I remember feeling awkward and ridiculous.

• Sunday school. My brother and I were made to attend Sunday school twice a day every Sunday. This lasted until year 5 for me I think and year 7 for my brother. Then it was once a day. I think we finally rebelled completely in secondary. The people running it were completely barking mad but my dad used to chuckle in an indulgent way and seemed to find them charming

• food. Just couldn't ever have a snack without some huge row as my mum worried endlessly about me getting fat yet used to buy copious amounts of cakes and biscuits.

• my mum slagging me off to people, sometimes inventing stuff. Sometimes if I challenged her on it she'd do this silly high pitched laugh and claim it happened. Stuff like 'titter titter my DD once rang me in the middle of the night because she fell out with her friends at a sleepover'. This didn't happen! Other times she would agree it was fictitious but she was trying to make the other parent feel better because I was well behaved

• mother having a memory like an elephant. I got into a minor bit of trouble at school in year 1 - talking or something - and the teacher must have mentioned it to my grandmother at pickup and she told my mum. My mum was still talking about it when I was in secondary school.

• my mums rages. Not often but sometimes I remember her just losing it and screaming. It was frightening when I was little.

• the emphasis on academic achievement. They used to force me to do work after school and if I got things wrong they'd yell and scream; my dad would punch things in frustration. It made me feel awful.

• comparisons to other children; my mum would tell me how much better another little girl was at me for something.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel mad with them, then guilty.

(I don't want counselling; please don't suggest.)

A lot of that sounds like my parents. I always thought my difficult teenage years were my fault but now I think I was acting out because of a lack of something at home, my mum had PND and depression after 2 significant events around my sibling, they are much closer than me yet my mum is lovely and I can rely on her.

I just try to be a different parent to my child.

But fRom the outside it all looked just peachy.

Lastminute I know exactly what you mean by the 20s stuff. Sometimes I feel more traumatised by my behaviour in my 20s than by my crappy childhood. I wish I could go back again and do it all properly .

None of us are perfect parents, and I've sometimes lost my temper at DD and shouted at her, but I ALWAYS say I'm sorry if I think I've gone too far. And like PP, I listen to her and she talks to me rather than forcing my view of the world onto her. There's a big difference.

I realised I had borderline personality disorder symptoms when I was younger (including problems forming relationships as you mention) and my F also probably had some sort of personality disorder too. Also reading stuff about complex PTSD has helped me to better understand how my background has affected me.

there are some real similarities between your childhood and mine. Im 48 now, and can still be reduced to hiding in my room and crying if I stay with my parents for too long. I have found various ways to be able to deal with the situation, but still have WTF moments when I wonder just what were they thinking? But here's a list of some of my thoughts which help me to process beyond that. I now have an OK relationship with them, and try to keep contact short and sweet (which is hard as I live thousands of miles away, so visits are only once a year).

• in spite of their many failings, my parents do love me. It may not be the best way to love a child, but I did grow up knowing I was loved.
• if the shit hits the fan, they would bail me out. There would be all sorts of conditions, and they would treat me like a naughty schoolgirl, but I could phone up and yell 'help' and they would.

- they both had pretty crappy childhoods, particularly my Dad. They were taught that children should be chastised and pretty much beaten into shape. Yes, they could have tried to work beyond that (and they did, a bit) but there was definitely a widespread belief that a parent's job was to browbeat their kids into submission, rather than love and support them. Slapping was normal, and parents never boasted about their children.

• my Dad, is very clearly (and often commented upon by others) NOT 'normal'. There's obvious issues with anxiety, learning problems, OCD behavior, and spectrum disorder behavior. Add to that an abusive, unloving childhood, and he didn't really have much of a chance. I find being around him highly stressful, but I do still know that he loves me.

- there have been a few times when my parents have been there for me and really helped out. There are many, many ways in which I feel let down by them, but I can name quite a few times when they made a BIG effort to support/help me. I remind myself that there is some balance there in how they treat me. - it is OK to acknowledge how hurtful their behavior to me has been. It doesn't make me a stroppy teen or 'awkward' (how they describe me) to know that they could have done better. - I don't have to be like them. I can decide to be a different kind of parent.

There's no way on earth that I would discuss any of this with them, btw! This is just how I have learnt to live with it.

I so get the sentiment that people feel they have been robbed of the person they could have been as this sums up my feelings completely.
I have been married nearly 30 yrs and have 4 lovely children but i still struggle to believe i am not a failure in everyones eyes.
As i said earlier i have learnt to deal with it by ignoring the little girl within and looking at things with a rational mind.
I often marvel at peoples easy relaxed confidence in themselves and envy it so much . I feel like i am on alert waiting for the next crisis to destroy everything i have worked so hard to achieve. It is exhausting being inside my own head a lot of the time !
I know my parents would be devastated if they knew i felt like this and whenever the subject of our childhoods come up they portray themselves as perfect parents and will criticise the way others have raised their kids. If i so much as hint that there were any failings i am shot down ( much like a previous poster said ) with talk of how ungrateful i am , how we always had a nice house etc .
I have tried my hardest not to make the same mistakes but now my kids are mostly grown and independant i am insecure about whether they feel the same and maybe i am a failure there as well as the thought of that kills me!
Thankyou so much op and all that have shared their stories it is really helping me to hear them x

I recently had an interesting talk with my sister. I hated the house we grew up in. I find it oppressive and unpleasant for both practical and emotional reasons. My sister (a goldenchild to my scapegoat status) knows that it is dark, unpractical and difficult to maintain, but said "it was my childhood home" and that she has great sentimental attachment to it.
So - obviously, she looks back at childhood as a happy time, whereas I don't.
When the time comes to sort that house out for my parents, there is almost nothing that I want as a keepsake. My sister can have it all. I need to keep some emotional distance from it all, whereas she is strongly attached.

I think DingDongDenny hit the nail on the head when she said Your parents sound very odd, like social misfits who didn't know how to fit in.

Maybe you are best not to look at your childhood so much now, except in the sense of what you wouldn't wish on another child and look to the future.

You got dealt this hand, OP, and it is never to late to live a good and satisfying life. My mother had an unhappy marriage and only really started to live the life she would have wanted when she was over 50.

Kickassangel thank you for a really helpful, practical post. Flapjack- I feel the same; hearing how it is for other people is a kind of therapy, helping me sort stuff out in my mind.

I envy adults who enjoy spending time with their parents. For me, visits have always been a duty. I cope better now (but it's taken me til my 50s!) but I would never willingly choose to spend time with them.

I'm equally envious of people who are close to their siblings as adults. I suspect once my parents pass away, I could easily never see my siblings again. There's no dislike; more that we have no connection and nothing to say to one another- as it is with my parents I suppose.

On the plus side (and i feel strongly that whatever our experiences, we can learn from them and try to do things differently) I do have some excellent friendships and a rewarding career.... my parents had the very traditional set up of dad being breadwinner and mum having total responsibility for everything at home (very normal of course in the 1960/70s ) Looking back i sense a lot of unfulfilled potential with my mum. I partnered a man who is almost the total opposite of my dad, which has been brilliant as he is as close to our children as I am and we have never had a sense of ascribed gender roles. So I can see that in a way, having the childhood i did has made me value friendships, work life and other things hugely, whereas perhaps if I hadn't felt such an urge to do things differently to my parents, I wouldn't be the person I am today.

I guess we're all striving to live the happiest, best life we can, and probably an element of looking back and reflecting on our past is essential to formulating how we want our adult life to be. It's when you're reflecting to the extent that it's seriously impacting on your present life that I suppose professional support might be Helpful

I think I've done all the learning from them, yes, I'm not like them, yes, they had their own problems and struggled, yes, I hear all that, I understand that.

There's still a deep sadness within me.

Me too, and perhaps a residue of sadness and guilt will always remain. I wish it didn't.

I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread but I would advise counseling.
My dad was completely fucked up by his parents and in turn does not have a good relationship with his dc. My dsis is nc with him.
Dsis and I are both having counseling however my dad has always refused it. So he goes on not being able to take any responsibility for his actions or being able to work through his issues. My dsis will not consider talking to him again until he addresses his issues but he refuses.
If you have dc you may want to consider counseling for their benefit.
Good luck. Our situation is similar.

Did you read the first post

Yes yes I meant to say I would advise counseling even if the Op says she doesn't want it.

Sorry you, as you are the OP

I aim baffled by how much you can attend Sunday scheduled more than once in the day? What would you you do on the second and even third visits?
My dp were odd. My whole family is odd and now I too am odd. Df used to slam fist on table, but never to me, throw things but never anything to do with me. Dm was lively too but rarely to me. Ie the potential for violence was there, but more in the passionate way. Never to me. I too can't understand Standish over small dc when doing home work etc. I have few issues with my odd parents, there was never this level of control over me. I went to Sunday school once and that was bad enough and dm was religious. I guess the bottom line is, people are people and sometimes horrid people have children. Just like they say too much alcohol doesn't make someone aggressive or cry it just brings out what is already there. Poor op, you just have to glean the good things and remember however bad they were, others have had far worse.

One thing which has helped me, as far as the contextualisation goes, is to mentally separate what my heart feels from what my head thinks.

For example, when I recall being caned as child, my heart feels horrified- how do you do this to your child? It wasn't a heat of the moment wallop, it was a calculated, wait til your father gets home, meted out punishment, on our bare bottoms too which added to the humiliation.

My head tells me that to my parents, this would have been what they felt they ought to do. It's what happened in school, fgs!

I think I was aware even back then that more enlightened parents didn't beat their children, but I can rationalise it to the extent that hitting children wasn't outlawed, in fact it was viewed as a reasonable and even positive chastisement.

Likewise I think in the future, people will look back on some elements of life which children are exposed to today and find it quite shocking

I think for me I am mourning my lost life really.

As someone said, I could have been someone very happy different.

I totally get your last comment of mourning a lost life and feeling like you/things could have been so different.

I feel that with a different childhood with both parents being supportive and making me feel like I mattered I would definitly have been different today. Maybe I would have been more confident, care free, and relaxed about things. I think I would have had a different career, not moved out of my parents house so early etc.

But I can also see that my own crap childhood and especially awful father have made me quite strong in many ways. I am also a really really nice mum and a caring person. I chose a very caring partner as I knew what I didn't want based on my father and my parents relationship.

So I guess what I am trying to say is there are usually some good things to come out of situations like this. I hope you too can feel this.

I still have days where I feel cheated but I always think it starts with me. You have to try to get to a place where although you may feel cheated, even angry at times, it takes up less and less of your time thinking about it. They have stolen enough from you, don't let them steal any more of your life.

OP you have my sympathy. My own DPs were like this is some ways. For instance,my Ddad was in a pretty well paid job and my Dmum worked part-time but they always acted like we were hard up, e.g. saying we couldn't afford holidays,or for me to have horse riding lessons.
I rarely got new clothes (I was told I'd 'only spoil them' if I did) and they were very frugal with xmas and birthday presents. Wasting food was considered a major offence,and it seemed to me sometimes that my Dm would deliberately give me food that she knew I didn't like just so it would cause an argument!
Like your Dm,mine was constantly on my back about snacking,saying I'd get fat,while at the same time frequently stuffing herself with cakes and savoury snacks (one of my earliest memories is of my mum standing in the kitchen eating a huge bag of salted peanuts like her life depended on it).
Thankfully they weren't at all religious so I didn't have that to contend with. But my Dm was always comparing me to other children, namely my friends,who according to her were much more intelligent,harder working,better behaved and confident than I was. One of my Dm's biggest gripes was that I was not outgoing and 'pushy' enough. It was only much later (after my Ddad had died) that I realised that if anyone lacked confidence,it was my Dm.
After my Ddad's death,and the birth of my own Ddaughter,I got on much better with her. I realise now that a lot of her behaviour towards me was influenced by him.

Yes, knowing that life could have been better. But you have to step away from that. You can't change what happened. You can change future relationships, and do better from now on.

I don't want it to be a facile "worse things happen at sea" belittling of your emotions, but emotionally engaging with the past allows it to perpetuate, whereas moving on from it is the only way to be happier. I try to do a bit of counting my blessings every day. It sounds stupid, but having a good life now is almost like my reward to me for what I put up with as a child. I'm also very aware that I could have had life much worse.

I've also lowered my expectations of my parents - I know I'll rarely get a compliment from them. Recently I finished an MA (part time, on top of a ft job) and they never said well done, let alone a card. They can't acknowledge that I've done better than DSis, so it doesn't get mentioned. I knew that my last trip home for a wedding I wouldn't get told that I look nice, or anything like that, so I've taught myself not to expect it from them. Still, I looked in a mirror and remembered that I'm very lucky to be healthy and happy and that I scrub up pretty well for a fat lass.

chesse & onion Your post is so familiar I'm laughing at the shared memories with a complete stranger.

I do think that WW2 and rationing created an entire generation of parents who were emotionally stunted and not well equipped for their roles. My parents are very well off, yet still save every scrap of food and there's a load of emotional bullshit around eating/not eating etc.

But - they grew up with govt. campaigns that made them feel guilty if they wasted a single thing. My Dad was sent to an abusive boarding school as young as possible, because no-one wanted him. No wonder he didn't know how to hug us or indulge us.

Along with the food there was a lot of "emotional rationing". My mum's parents were the only survivors of WW2 from their entire extended families. It's not surprising that they didn't emotionally over-engage. You'd never know who would go missing next. You can't bring kids up with close loving family if those family keep dying. Better to keep a stiff upper lip and pretend you were mere acquaintances.

We know that doesn't really work, but what would you do if you were raising kids during the Blitz?

Your posts are so helpful, kickass. Very measured, thoughtful and practical.

As I said upthread, I do wonder which things considered normal and acceptable today, might be considered unacceptable, or even neglectful/ abusive in future generations.

As a teacher, the unmonitored use of internet and screen time is something I'm all too aware of.... I see stressed out over anxious youngsters daily and I sometimes wonder if in years to come they'll feel their parents should have exerted tighter boundaries and protected them from
Some of the pressures they face.

On the other hand I can see that very, very few parents are genuinely uncaring. They're doing their best within the social context of 2017.

Being a parent is very hard work; sadly, being a child can be too.

My mum was embarrassing. We lived in the countryside, so if there was anything to do, the whole family would go. She would just say embarrassing/cheesy stuff to people we knew. I think she had a bit going on in her head, and didn't have a fantastic sense of humour. But she was well-meaning.

She died when I was 19, and to be honest it was a relief at that age to not have to tolerate it any more. I desperately loved my mum, we had a great relationship, but it was a weight I didn't realise I had been carrying.

I'm glad they're helpful - can you tell I've thought about this shit far too much?