To still feel so fucked off with my parents?

[lastminuterush]

In many ways my parents were good; very loving and generous and supportive.

But there are various things that really stand out from my childhood and adolescence and I sometimes feel angry.

Like:

• clothes; we didn't lack money but I never had clothes. A few hand me downs from my brother. Some horrible stuff from the market. Occasionally I'd beg something as a birthday or Christmas present but often it was wrong - like one year I asked for jeans and I got them but they were more demim trousers with an elasticised waist and embroidery, so for much younger girls. It contributed in part to such bad bullying as I always had awful stuff.

• my dad and the camera. He used to 'stage' elaborate photographs - getting the whole family to stand somewhere stupid while he took a picture or getting you into stupid poses and then putting the photos up somewhere. He once barged in on me when I was trying to eat something and took a photo. Just made you feel self conscious and stupid. And I hate the fact that I hate most of our family photos as I remember feeling awkward and ridiculous.

• Sunday school. My brother and I were made to attend Sunday school twice a day every Sunday. This lasted until year 5 for me I think and year 7 for my brother. Then it was once a day. I think we finally rebelled completely in secondary. The people running it were completely barking mad but my dad used to chuckle in an indulgent way and seemed to find them charming

• food. Just couldn't ever have a snack without some huge row as my mum worried endlessly about me getting fat yet used to buy copious amounts of cakes and biscuits.

• my mum slagging me off to people, sometimes inventing stuff. Sometimes if I challenged her on it she'd do this silly high pitched laugh and claim it happened. Stuff like 'titter titter my DD once rang me in the middle of the night because she fell out with her friends at a sleepover'. This didn't happen! Other times she would agree it was fictitious but she was trying to make the other parent feel better because I was well behaved

• mother having a memory like an elephant. I got into a minor bit of trouble at school in year 1 - talking or something - and the teacher must have mentioned it to my grandmother at pickup and she told my mum. My mum was still talking about it when I was in secondary school.

• my mums rages. Not often but sometimes I remember her just losing it and screaming. It was frightening when I was little.

• the emphasis on academic achievement. They used to force me to do work after school and if I got things wrong they'd yell and scream; my dad would punch things in frustration. It made me feel awful.

• comparisons to other children; my mum would tell me how much better another little girl was at me for something.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel mad with them, then guilty.

(I don't want counselling; please don't suggest.)

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say you think you might have grown up in a loving home where your parents made mistakes.

Thanks Italian. I always enjoy reading your wise words.

OP I'm hoping I'll stop feeling pissed off with NM when she finally kicks the bucket although I'm sure there will be a 'feck you' towards me in the Will she is very secretive about. I spent between 2-4am insomniac this am dreading her visiting DD today.

I think a lot may be to do with the difference in generations. For what it's worth, when I was younger, my parents simply 'parented'. It's only as we've gotten older and become parents ourselves, in a world of asd/adhd/asbergers/dyspraxia, and many more, and the changes in law towards kids and parenting, that we start to realise that if our parents were parenting us in this day and age, they would be arrested for mental and physical abuse!

I'd like to mention here that my son was diagnosed with dyspraxia and my daughter went through self harming in her early teens. Not something I would wish on anyone.

I feel your pain OP
didn't really start to think about it until my early 30s but It crosses my mind a lot now.

I get it. It sounds difficult to say the least.

I do think everyone should have counselling in their lives - it helps so much. Even at the moment when everything is going well I'm tempted to book a few sessions in just to keep my head clear. It's helped me navigate divorce, health issues with one of the dcs and some peculiar family dynamics and come out the other side pretty well adjusted.

The bit which really resonated with me in your op was the memory like an elephant bit. My mum can remember every way in which she has been wronged (or felt that she had been) for decades. The other day she brought up something trivial which happened while I was at school 25 years ago. I find it utterly draining. She can also remember everything I've ever done wrong and I feel like I'm blighted no matter what I do in future.

Sorry if I'm cross-posting, only read OP's entries after page 2 or so.
Lastminute how is your relationship with your brother now?
I can see you've moved on the best you could, but it's a process and obviously there are many issues that are still bothering you, at least on occasion. Perhaps talking to your brother about it all would help. You can both relate to the same issues and grieve together. It's painful but little by little, it'll help you both heal.
Or if you've drifted apart, perhaps you could look for ways to rebuild your relationship. Small steps. Doing things together that you both enjoy, or enjoyed as kids.

My dad was an alcoholic and was a bully would quite often come home and punch doors and walls and occasionally would hurt my mum.
Some days I would dread going home my mum never told a soul and was and still is embarrassed about it. I'm not it wasn't my fault. He's calmed down a lot but he is almost 70 now still goes off the rails now and again with the drink but he is who he is.But as a adult I'm 35 now two gorgeous girls and I wonderful husband it made me strong I wouldn't put up with any of that in my adult life. I don't hate my dad or mum for not leaving him it's just how it was. Shit happens just move on life is too short. Just make sure what happened in your childhood doesn't in your family's.
The only thing that bothers me is drink I have the odd glass of wine when out with friends never at home which is silly really but I always think I'm half him and I don't want to be like him

whirlycurly (great name) what do you do when your .I'm remembers her 'wrongs' of 25 years ago?

mummyoflittledragon thank you.

Ignoring a child's suicide attempt is not normal! Or loving!

I think if you hold a mirror up to a lot of childhoods in different eras they might qualify as abusive now. I don't think that means we should excuse it, unless we want to. And that's the thing, you're an adult now, so you get to choose. There's no right or wrong choice. For me I only felt better once I started to stand up to them - and that took until I was in my 40s. Once I did - and I used to unravel back into a little girl too if I was there for any length of time, so I know exactly what you mean - I got on better with them and started to see them as human. For those who haven't been through anything similar, that might sound ridiculous but I can't do much about that.

IDoDaChaCha Is your dd a child or an adult?

Leebee you know yourself and your life but I would like to say I do not think that abuse (cruelty, bullying etc) ever makes us stronger.

You were, and are a strong person, and you survived it all and you moved on.

But I don't think abuse makes us stronger.

Maybe it taps into a strength already there.

But for others it crushes them.

The only reason I am saying this is because for those crushed by abuse, unable to move forward etc I think it is important to note that abuse does not generally make us better people. But sometimes, even in the midst of it we can find strength.

I have not experienced said abuse, so you can ignore me.

But I have read a lot about religious and political oppression and the idea is often stated that such oppression makes people stronger. I just do not see it.

But I am glad you have found your strength.

Italiangreyhound
Never really thought of it like that maybe your right. Maybe I'm not strong at all I just like to think I wouldn't tolerate as adult. I'm not sure as a child I even saw it as abuse it was my normal.
Anyway what's done is done and there's lots of people out there who has it far worse.

I don't know if this will be helpful or not. But here goes.
It doesn't matter how many people say "fine" and how many people say "abuse" - all that matters is how your childhood affected you. I guess PPs have made that point.
I'm not sure what you want to gain from creating this thread - if it's validation for the way you feel then you absolutely have it. You wanted to end your life 11 years in. Your parents failed you.
One thing that was poignant for me in what you have written here is (apologies for paraphrasing) that you are mourning the life you could have had. I really get that. However, you and I are roughly the same age and honestly you talk as though your life is over. In 10 years you will be 46. Don't be 46 and mourning the life you could have had over the last 10 years.
Don't look back, you're not going that way. (Am I actually David Brent? Possibly. But it's still bloody true).
Counselling is a no - totally get it. You are the perfect candidate for CBT. No talking about the past bollocks, just dealing with negative emotions in the here and now.
Love X

Interesting timing of your post OP! I've been thinking about my childhood recently. I'm going through IVF right now (late thirties) and I've been doing a bit of soul searching on the whole "do I really want children" thing and a part of the reason that IVF is necessary is because I've been so on the fence about children and anxious and fearful about the responsibility of parenting, in part because my own childhood was filled with anxiety.

My parents are great people and they love me but looking back now I realise they never actually liked having children. My childhood was lonely and boring, my parents didn't do anything with me or my sibling - not for money reasons, they just didn't enjoy holidays, days out, any type of activity, they even hated board games. I actually laugh now at the bizarre tradition they had of buying me board games for Christmas but never, ever agreeing to play with me. I must the only person I know who played monopoly against herself!

When I was 10 they decided to fulfill their dream of a rural paradise and moved us from the town we lived in to a village a hundred miles away that was 9 miles from the nearest town. The only problem was that they forgot that they hated driving and so I didn't get to join the guides, see my friends after school or on weekends (my school was in the town 9 miles away), join any sports clubs etc. I actually dreaded school holidays because it meant neverending loneliness and boredom. My experiences really coloured my view of having children for many years, there seemed to be no joy in having a family.

Well that's my self-pitying moan over, my parents raised me to be healthy, I went to a good university and I have a good life so nothing to complain about but I appreciate this thread giving me this outlet to feel a bit sorry for myself

I will say that is does irritate me that my DM has been asking when she will get a grandchild for years now. Given how thoroughly miserable she was as my parent it rankles a little that she is so desperate to be a grandparent!

They sound very like my parents, especially the Sunday school stuff, and always finding fault. I think it came down to the fact that they just didn't get the children they wanted or thought they deserved to get. They are both dead and there's a stack of stuff i'd like to ask them but it just rests with me now. Try to move on and be the best parent you can be to your children.

You know something, I just re-read my post and realised that I automatically edited out any of the "darker" incidents in my childhood. I suppose I still have an urge to sugarcoat my experiences even in a anonymous chat thread! What I didn't mention was my extremely strained relationship with my DM. I resembled my father in looks and personality while my sibling resembled my mother in the same way, so I was naturally more of a daddy's girl and from the get go I never experienced a bond with my DM, I irritated her a lot. I will never forget when my mother came into my bedroom late one night, she was tipsy (something I only realised as an adult) and she must have had a fight with my dad because she stood at the door and said "you and your father should just leave and live somewhere else." The next morning it was like nothing had ever happened, I was about 9 years old at the time. Our relationship did not improve, in fact it is only as an adult that I've experienced a warmer relationship with my DM.

As an adult I have been very reluctant to think about having children and my DM once commented to me that she always knew I wouldn't want children because even as a young girl I had no interest in playing with dolls. A silly statement on it face but when I look back I actually realise that even by the time I was 5 or 6 I was aware on a certain level that my DM just didn't like me very much and that playing at being a mother with a child (the dolls) wasn't a fun activity because in real life it certainly was not.

This thread is turning out to be quite cathartic!

Leebee "Never really thought of it like that maybe your right. Maybe I'm not strong at all I just like to think I wouldn't tolerate as adult. I'm not sure as a child I even saw it as abuse it was my normal."

NO, no, I am not saying you are not strong. I believe you are strong! Honestly. I am saying abuse did not make you strong.

Please, please believe, I am not in any way criticizing you, I think you are strong.

Your mum sounds like mine Rainbunny can relate to Tipsy incident

Rainbunny I think you are going to be a great mum. your mum is a fool not to love you more or express that love well.

You sound fabulous.

Hi - I feel for you and you say you don't need counselling but that's what counselling is there for... I had it to deal with some 'little issues' from my childhood and felt loads better afterwards- so maybe consider it- or ask yourself-' how long am I going to feel like thisand can I ine day forgive them and move on and enjoy some time with them Now ( I'm assume they are still around?)

They sound like my parents.

I used to be told as a teenager that I had ruined my mum's life. A lot. I wasn't particularly badly behaved, just a grumpy teen. I didn't deserve that.

And agreed about remembering everything you did wrong. I still get reminded (in my 30's).

I can relate to a lot of what you say too. Bad clothes absolutely. In fact I never had new clothes until I got a Saturday job and bought my own, or a haircut. We never had decent food in the house, my mother couldn't cook and we had the same awful stuff day after day that made me literally puke. I had a father who hit me and bullied us, and a mother who was totally emotionally absent and disinterested. I was never praised , just run down, criticised or ignored. Also had the religious thing going on until I refused to go any more at age 14. I didn't ever have any real relationship with my parents and have never felt supported or really loved. I haven't found counselling has helped, it's just dragging out endless grievances and feeling shit. Didn't help me get a perspective on things or feel any better sadly.

I think that your parents were trying to do the best they could for you and intentions were good but some of it not being done in the right way.

I know you don't want counselling OP, but somebody asked upthread if counselling had ever worked for these kinds of issues, and I just wanted to say that for me it really did.
It was only after my marriage broke up, and I realised that every single relationship I'd had (from age 15) had been abusive, that I traced it all back to my childhood and my mum. And it's not about making a value judgement on whether this thing or that thing was 'bad' or not, but dealing with the impact. And an amazing counsellor actually helped change my life. I'm a different person now. And the improvement on my relationship with my sons is staggering as well.
And I have forgiven her. We don't have much of a relationship now (pretty much her choice) but I can reach out to her on Christmas, birthdays etc, and the pain isn't there the same.
I can even remember some of the good stuff! But equally acknowledge the bad, and know I didn't deserve it and it wasn't my fault (if you see what I mean).

Italiangreyhound - Thank you! Well it's my absolute last window of opportunity to start a family so we're going for it. Thankfully my DH's family are a wonderful advertisement for the joys of having a family :)

This thread is an abject lesson in how long it can take us to realise that our personal sense of normal is anything but!