To still feel so fucked off with my parents?

[lastminuterush]

In many ways my parents were good; very loving and generous and supportive.

But there are various things that really stand out from my childhood and adolescence and I sometimes feel angry.

Like:

• clothes; we didn't lack money but I never had clothes. A few hand me downs from my brother. Some horrible stuff from the market. Occasionally I'd beg something as a birthday or Christmas present but often it was wrong - like one year I asked for jeans and I got them but they were more demim trousers with an elasticised waist and embroidery, so for much younger girls. It contributed in part to such bad bullying as I always had awful stuff.

• my dad and the camera. He used to 'stage' elaborate photographs - getting the whole family to stand somewhere stupid while he took a picture or getting you into stupid poses and then putting the photos up somewhere. He once barged in on me when I was trying to eat something and took a photo. Just made you feel self conscious and stupid. And I hate the fact that I hate most of our family photos as I remember feeling awkward and ridiculous.

• Sunday school. My brother and I were made to attend Sunday school twice a day every Sunday. This lasted until year 5 for me I think and year 7 for my brother. Then it was once a day. I think we finally rebelled completely in secondary. The people running it were completely barking mad but my dad used to chuckle in an indulgent way and seemed to find them charming

• food. Just couldn't ever have a snack without some huge row as my mum worried endlessly about me getting fat yet used to buy copious amounts of cakes and biscuits.

• my mum slagging me off to people, sometimes inventing stuff. Sometimes if I challenged her on it she'd do this silly high pitched laugh and claim it happened. Stuff like 'titter titter my DD once rang me in the middle of the night because she fell out with her friends at a sleepover'. This didn't happen! Other times she would agree it was fictitious but she was trying to make the other parent feel better because I was well behaved

• mother having a memory like an elephant. I got into a minor bit of trouble at school in year 1 - talking or something - and the teacher must have mentioned it to my grandmother at pickup and she told my mum. My mum was still talking about it when I was in secondary school.

• my mums rages. Not often but sometimes I remember her just losing it and screaming. It was frightening when I was little.

• the emphasis on academic achievement. They used to force me to do work after school and if I got things wrong they'd yell and scream; my dad would punch things in frustration. It made me feel awful.

• comparisons to other children; my mum would tell me how much better another little girl was at me for something.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel mad with them, then guilty.

(I don't want counselling; please don't suggest.)

I think the conflicting opinions are probably relative to the opinion givers own upbringing. I had an abusive up bringing, so what your relating doesn't seem too bad to me.

Someone that had a good upbringing opinion may differ.

I had a very similar childhood OP. I know exactly what you mean about the conflicting feelings towards your parents.
It is easy for people to say get over it but to suffer as a child because of their actions (whether on purpose or not) takes an awful lot of getting over! !

Lastminute...I could of written both of you posts so much resonates. My folks are starting to realise a little that they were shits and try and justify it. My Dad was very very controlling and I was allowed to do the normal teen things and it was very isolating. A few years ago my Mum bought up my Dad force feeding us, in that tinkly laugh' oh wasn't that funny' kind of way. I made it very clear that kind of stuff would warrant SS involvement now.

I can really relate to the clothes... we didnt have a uniform at school so the clothes you wore really defined you and was very noticed. For years I wore my Aunties cast offs as they had found loads of stuff after she had died..

My Mum is actually due today and I ma not as stressed as I usually am, though still wondering what she will find to moan about, she is very negative about everything. I cant remember her ever saying anything usefully positive about me. She does like to brag to friends I have four loos.

She has always had a best friend who has the most wonderful daughter she will prattle on about for hours...this time it is Angie and I know more about Angies dog's arsehole (literally) than she knows about us. Last time she was here she spent three hours going on about how much Angie likes gardening, when if only she would shift her arse of the sofa she could actually sit in ym lovely garden.

I dont have much advice and I dont know what to suggest. Over the last few years I have learnt to try and disengage but it is difficult when they are sat in the house with you being arseholes

OP, if you don't want counselling, maybe take yourself over to the Stately Homes threads on the Relationship boards. You might get more responses from people that grew up in similar situations.

Them being loving etc is not an excuse or healing aid for them being intensely emotionally unstable and punching the table when you got sums wrong. You yourself admit you felt scared during these times and that the atmosphere was one of fear at times.

N child should have to go through that regardless of how nice their parents were the rest of the time.

Gah...NOT allowed to do most teenage things...

One of the problems with my parents was that they actually were lovely people - we always saw the 'worst' of them.

I was VERY compliant as a child, at home, not at school so much. My brother pushed back a bit more. I don't think they knew how to deal with misbehaviour. My mum once slapped him across the face in public; I remember that. He also tried to hang himself in Year 7 after a bad school report. Come to think of it, we both made suicide attempts in the 11-13 years. No one seemed bothered.

It sounds a lot like my childhood apart from the academics.
My DPS couldn't have been less interested in our education

I am with you OP. I had to protect myself so much from my DPs that I am now unable to feel much for DM at all.

I think the trouble is that the 'normal' 70s (in my case) childhood stuff gets mixed up with the not so normal stuff hence people telling you 'it doesn't sound bad'

If you had loving, supportive parents who didn't think clothing you was a priority you can move past that as you get older.
If you had self absorbed, chaotic parents whose lack of attention led to bullying for your appearance its a different kettle of fish.

We all joke about being left in the pub garden with a bottle of lemonade and a packet of crisps back in the day.
My memory is of being very young and in terrible pain from yet another sunburn and not knowing where mum and dad were. Whilst they acted as if they didn't have three young children waiting for them after already waiting for them all day to finish their hobby.

I think these things really depend on context

I think it's difficult to look back and not be that frustrated child. As an adult you see the world quite differently. But, it's difficult to look back and see through your adult eyes - because those things shaped the adult you!

I can completely relate with the clothing side of things. Yip, I remember begging and pleading for a pair of denim dungarees. The fashion at the time were loose fitting ones. I was bought a pair of extremely tight fitting ones. I was really self-conscious of my then developing figure. I was called ungrateful for not wearing them. I was the middle child, so didn't get many new items. I was given my older sisters hand-me-downs. But, she'd keep them until they were out of fashion. My younger sister also got new clothes.

I also had the camera hell. Not staged as such. Just forced to have my photo taken - the end result was me crying on the majority.

Thanks, for people who have been supportive and indeed those who were not so supportive.

MrsDV, I think you're right about the normal being mixed with the not so. I mean, I suffered terribly from motion sickness (I still do, although as an adult I manage it better) and they used to drive from the north west to the south of France. I was sick as a dog and so miserable and I swear my mother used to behave as if it was a personal affront to her. Sometimes she'd be sympathetic, other times it was screaming about me being sick in a car and it being smelly - I couldn't help it!

They used to leave us on the beach as well.

I uncomfortably feel the clothes might not have been entirely unintentional. They both worked in secondary schools: they knew our stupid clothes made us a target. There was a uniform but my mum bought me the most God awful grey skirt - mid calf length, the sort an elderly lady would wear. And a bright green cost from the market and bag that was like a hold-all - also from the market.

That year they took us to Florida. It wasn't a money thing, it was either they didn't care or they thought it was funny.

I think you've hit the nail on the head lastminuterush, that the problem is that other people's interpretations range so widely, from 'very normal childhood for that time' to definitely abusive.

FWIW what you say resonates hugely with me- you've kind of put into words what I've always felt. I'm older than you so mine was a 60s/70s childhood. I have no doubt my parents loved me, and I honestly think they would have believed they were doing their best but I find it very hard to come to terms with some things. As a child I was caned for 'big' misdemeanours. I clearly remember an occasion when my brother accidentally broke an expensive ornament. We both got caned because I happened to be in the room with him and my dad clearly felt we were both responsible.

The photos thing- YY, as I got older I loathed the family photo thing, I was very self conscious as a teenager and this made it far worse.

Church- we all had to go as a family once or twice a week; my mum was a believer but I think my dad just went along with it. This continued until I was about 15 and given a choice

Other than the specifics, like you I had a general feeling of being socially isolated. My parents never had friends around for a meal or even a cup of tea. We'd see relatives a few times a year but it felt as though my parents saw the family as a very tight unit and didn't feel any need to be outward looking. I could have a friend over for tea now and again but no sleepovers (again, maybe this was usual for the 70s?)

Although I believe my parents genuinely loved me and wanted us children, I never felt any close bond in terms of confiding in them; in fact I can't think of a single case where I've talked to them about anything of real importance or things which worried me. Even from quite a young age I had a kind of feeling of needing to 'protect' their feelings... I sensed they wouldn't cope well if I told them stuff which they would see as problematic; e.g. For a period of time I was bullied and quite unhappy at school but there was no way I felt I could tell my parents.

I feel curious and a little envious when I hear adults talk about having a really close relationship to their parents because I can't relate. Having said that, in some ways perhaps it's helped me to be very self sufficient and I can honestly say I have a happy life and I've worked hard at raising my children to feel they can be their true selves.

Sorry Lastminuterush, this post has all been about me. But your post just hit the nail on the head about how I feel and that confusion over whether a lot of it is 'normal' or whether I have the right to feel angry/let down. I've sometimes wondered about counselling but TBH I think my coping mechanism has been to tell myself my parents did their best even though it was far from perfect. I also think it's so hard to judge anyway, because societal norms change and things which seem unspeakable now were perhaps far more common 40 years ago.

For you both to be so downtrodden that you contemplated suicide, it wasn't good at all - the good part about all this is that you know how wrong it was and are not brainwashed into thinking it was normal ... you also know that there is nothing that can be done to make it right, except live your life to the fullest and be a good person. Unfortunately there are a LOT of people in life who are selfish, mean spirited, controlling and devoid of feeling - these people can also be parents, along with the kind, loving and supportive ones. However they messed you up then, you seem like a decent, kind human being and you need to focus on that and realise you are you and not them and obviously strong. I also resent my mum for lots of ways she has and still made me feel - it is hard I know

YANBU. This isn't a matter of getting over it, these experiences in our childhood completely shape the person we become through our brain development and it's not simply a matter of thinking ourselves out of it. There is a view that inconsistent parenting can have worse effects than consistently bad parenting because of the level of confusion it causes. In addition how we react to these things is shaped by a number of different factors, including our genes and whether we had anyone else in our lives to form a bond with as a child. This sounds similar to my childhood and I have struggled massively as an adult to manage my emotions and relationships as a result. I struggle with my relationships with my parents. I can understand the way that they are is a result of their own trauma, and I do not want to discuss with them anything about me, but it does leave you a bit in limbo. Counselling has helped me to have someone there who has helped me to understand what has happened, which has helped it settle a bit in my head as well as recognising how I can change my behaviour and thoughts now.

I think if you felt powerless to stop things you didn't like happening to you ( being screamed at for getting work wrong, forced into stupid photos, being spoken about to people in a negative way) and they didn't listen to you then it can fall under abusive parenting.

Every child should be listened to, just because they are smaller doesn't mean parents can just do whatever they want with no consideration for the emotions of the child.

If you don't want counselling though, and this is affecting your life then I don't know what you can do. Can you talk to your parents, tell them how you felt at the time and how you feel now ?

It sounds like they tried their best and maybe that you are now seeing in them what you see in yourself.

You're being unfair and unkind to your parents who actually sound like they were doing their best to raise you properly.

Your parents sound very odd, like social misfits who didn't know how to fit in.

The story you told about your mum lying about things you did and then laughing sounds like her trying to fit in with other parents.

I think this meant that as kids you also didn't get to fit in as you had the wrong clothes, weren't exposed to 'normal' family life etc and you felt the unfairness of it

I get that it has affected you deeply so why not seek out some support for it?

I don't feel it is pushing into 'abusive' territory myself but I guess people's perceptions are different (and fwiw I was dressed in charity shop uniform for most of primary school despite both parents being teachers).

Don't apologise Babbity, it really helps :)

Suicide - I tried in Year 7 as well. I remember it being horrendous. I did get a bit of bullying in primary but was sheltered from it. One of the reallymsad things I think about my childhood was that I think with different parents I would have thrived. Early photos show me surrounded by friends. I was very very popular at primary school. But Year 7 - Christ, lamb to the slaughter or what - with my awful skirt and coat and stupid bag. Oh and my hair. I hadn't been allowed to have it cut in primary school but then inexplicably my mum started putting it in rollers so I had these awful curls. Jesus me. I got crucified. It was a rough secondary anyway. I was a nervous wreck by the end of the first term there and was pulling my hair out, literally! I thought I couldn't face going back after Christmas.

The awful hair lasted all the way through secondary. I got a job one summer and went to a hairdresser and had it all cut off into a Justine frischmann style (it was the 90s!) Everyone said it looked great. I always have poker straight hair now.

That was a long moan. It's just I feel like it was somehow done intentionally. Because when I got a hard time at school I liked being at home and didn't want to socialise and I wonder if just maybe that was the aim.

How could you possibly know that they tried their best user?

I also sometimes ask whether I would do something as a parent or want it for my DD, and if not why not, which helps to better put it in context about whether or not it is okay.

my dad would punch things in frustration. It made me feel awful

This is bad.

The rest of it, I'm a bit . They sound very flawed, certainly not parents of the year candidates, but 'abusive' is a very strong word here, I think.

I could have written this! Only my parents also kicked me out at 16 and left me in a homeless Hostel whilst they jetted off to Canada! Then when I finally (after a year!) got a flat, with a concrete floor, no heating and no furniture (except a bed, a fridge and two inflatable chairs), told me when I'd complained of being cold to "...put your coat on?"

Now, all these years later, now that I'm a Mum, I feel so angry. For some reason I never saw the injustice at that age. No idea why.
When I confronted my Mum about it recently she just says "Oh you've waited until Dad died so you can start on me then?" - He died 7 years ago? Basically she refuses to discuss it and just tells me it's all lies and she never did any of it, besides saying "Well I was working at 16?" (Meaning her...She was 16 in 1960 and lived at home until she was married!!!)
Anyway, sorry I got a bit carried away there. Just wanted to let you know you're not alone!

Fact is, even if they held their hands up to it, what difference is it going to make? The damage is done, sadly....

YANBU. Similar themes to me & my parents except I had no brother, no 'photos' incidents as such but their equivalents iyswim!!

I get it OP. Covert abuse is hard to articulate but you reach a point in adulthood when you feel very angry about it. Stately homes thread might be of some use to you if you need to vent.

Many of these resonate with me, too - especially the clothes. I was dressed though I lived in a skip for most of my life in second-hand stuff or stuff my mam thought was appropriate. - And no, it wasn't because they were short of cash. They weren't wealthy, but they weren't poor. Both of my sisters always had new clothes (they were younger than me, so it wasn't that I got their hand-me-downs) as did my brother - this was because they were pretty so it was worth dressing them up, apparently (I was the "sensible" one) and of course, my brother was The Boy.

In retrospect I can also see that it was because my sisters would just refuse to wear stuff they didn't choose for themselves. (One of them would just stand and scream till she got her own way - and she wasn't a toddler, either! The other wouldn't speak for days.).

I can't regard this as enabling their behaviour, as I was a child and just accepted that that was how things were.

And yes - I am bitter and angry sometimes. It affected my confidence then and it still does now and I'm in my sixties.