WIBU to tell my team members they must attend this leaving do?

[regenerator]

Ok, I know I would be but I do feel I would be justified in raising the matter.

We are a small team in a larger organisation and one of our team members is leaving having been with us for almost 5 years. Everyone was positive about going out to say goodbye, and we usually go out as a team at Christmas/when someone leaves etc - we don't socialise a lot but mark occasions and always have a good time when we do. Organising a date for a 'do' was hard as we are all busy people, but we finally got one that suited everyone.

We decided to have the meal in a location about 30 minutes drive from where we work, which is nearer to where leaving girl lives. Aside from one person, no one lives in the town we work in, so there is no 'obvious' location we could go to that would suit everyone.

The day after we settled on a date, the management of our organisation announced that there would be a 'summer party' held on the same date in our place of work - a licenced bar, buffet etc. Two of our team members immediately started saying they would like to go to that and leaving girl immediately started trying to accommodate them, suggesting other dates etc. None were any good and they said they would go to the staff do for an hour or so and then come to the leaving do.

However, the leaving girl feels it isn't fair to expect them to come as, with the distance, if they don't have a meal it won't be worth the time spent to get there - neither of them wants to drive, which is obviously fair enough. She has left it with them and nothing has been said for a day or so and she has said to me, sadly, not sulkily or in a flounce, that she may just 'leave it'.

I feel so bad for her as she has been a great person to work with and a friend and now may leave without it being marked. I also feel these two were incredibly rude to go back on plans made and would like to gently point this out. I get that, for one reason or another, they both know a lot more people in the wider organisation than the rest of our team does, so that's why they want to go to the summer party. But...no one else is leaving, they can go to any number of occasions with their other friend. Our colleague is leaving and we probably won't see her again. It may well be that they don't realise how she is feeling...

WIBU to do that? I am the manager of the team, if it matters.

Don't change anything.You keep the leaving do for those who want to attend. Those who go to the company summer do will attend that and will be choosing not to attend the leaving do. It makes the leaving do smaller, but still better than any other option. No need to dictate what others choose.

Not sure if everyone has noticed the update!

Honestly though OP, to add to what I said earlier about your comprehensive update, I think you actually have to tread quite carefully here. Simply because, if the two who've pulled out feel that the arrangements were made somewhat over their heads, as it were, they might actually be a bit fucked off with you already. In a way it's good that this has happened now, because otherwise there might have been some conveniently timed migraines on the day. You don't have to post about it, but if I were you I'd be privately reflecting on whether some of my team members weren't happy with my actions already.

Funny. There've been all sorts of threads in the past where people have received a "better offer" having already agreed to go to some party or other and the majority view is always you stick to what you've first agreed to. Same if kids get a second invite, we "teach" them that they stick to the first agreement. Anything else is apparently rude.

Not in this case, it seems (putting aside any suggestions of people being made to do something).

Yes, YABU.

Give them three or four options then let everyone vote.

I did this for the Christmas party a few years ago. We went with what the majority wanted to do. People still moaned! As long as the majority are happy I don't give a stuff I'm afraid. It is very difficult to get everyone to particpate and be happy. People are infuriating and selfish but you have to let it go.

Is this the first time you've had to organise something like this?

But the fact that this is about work and bosses is the most significant factor here. You can't put aside any suggestions of people being made to do something, because that's the point. It's the absolutely inevitable assumption of OP even asking her subordinates for an explanation, much less telling them to go as was in the initial post.

And honestly, it was obvious from pretty early on that this party hadn't been as generally agreed as OP was saying. That's also a complicating factor, if people have been railroaded into the invitation.

Just go ahead with the leaving do without them. What's the problem with that? As long as there are a few of you then it's fine isn't it? If the company ball do finishes 'really bloody early' then they could join the leaving do for dessert and coffees.

I'm not seeing the issue 🤷🏻‍♀️

As a manager your role would be to attend the summer do
Yabu to not go to that
It will but noted by your manager that you did not attend a works do that you should really be attending
You are prioriising your friendship with a soon to be ex colleague over your own career
Which is madness

God, leave it, op . They've made it clear that they don't want to give up an evening to fete an ex colleague they'll never see again.
Just leave it, can't you??

Maybe the leaver doesn't much rate your management style either - she's leaving. If you want to remain friends, that's up to you; but the rest of your team clearly don't and your insistence that they "pay sufficient respect" as it were, to the fact that someone has got a better offer and is leaving the team is extremely odd.
If she was happy in her job she wouldn't have gone searching for another one.

Shatners I agree theyre rude. I just don't think it's up to the op to police their rudeness. They can be rude (up to a point) in choosing what they do out of work hours

Thanks for your update OP, it seems this is about more than just the leaving do.

Most people see a work social occasion differently from a non work one therefore normal cancellation rules don't apply so strictly, particularly when the alternative is work sanctioned as well.

Therefore I don't think it's terribly rude for these people to change their mind. I must say that I hardly ever go to after work things due to childcare issues and I'd be surprised to learn that my line manager would think less of me for this.

I organised my own leaving do as I wanted it during the day. As people work different patterns I bought in a few pizzas at lunch and booked a room so people could come in as and when they could.

Bottom line is you can't and shouldn't force your team to do something when they aren't getting paid for it. Leaving colleague may actually have a nicer leaving do with a small number of people who genuinely want to be there.

insancerre Why should the OP prioritise a shitty summer works do out of working hours over ANYTHING else they'd prefer to do (in this case, colleague-friend's leaving meal)? Why should they REALLY be attending?

Sorry, but whenever there are threads about work dos people start trotting out things along the lines of "it'll harm your career if you don't". Well quite frankly that's bollocks. Your employee pays you for a set number of hours to do a job. They do not pay you for attending social functions outside of those hours.

I used to work in the corporate field and for personal reasons I never attended the office Xmas party. I would attend leaving lunches or team lunches. Every year there was a majorly huge do where the company paid for all staff to stay in a hotel somewhere (Brighton Grand one year), lay on a coaches if necessary (we had big offices in London and ten other cities or large towns) meal and disco the Saturday night. I never went once. I used to get the occasional "it'll harm your career if you don't go".

I started work there at 21, non graduate, lowest pay grade. By 24 I was the youngest assistant manager not only in that part of the company (1,900 staff) but in the parent company too (12,000 staff).

You don't choose your work colleagues, you're paid to be with them 9-5 (or whatever hours) 5 days a week. Outside of that is MY life to do what I choose with the people I choose to spend time with.

Of course you could do something for lunch. Everyone gets a lunch break.

Stealth Totally agree. Not for any manager to say you should do anything outside of work hours. But still doesn't mean those changing their minds aren't rude and many previous posters said they weren't being rude.

I was initially going to say YABU, but having read your updates YABVU and don't come across as someone with good people skills!

Of course a company-wide works event would take precedence over a meal it seems you forced on them. Maybe they aren't fussed about the woman who is leaving. I wouldn't drive 30 mins after works to pay for a meal for someone I'd worked with for a few years unless they were also a friend outside work.

Why can you not do a leaving lunch or collect some money to give her a nice present and a card?

Yes! Lunch and a collection which can be given in the form of a cheque - which you can then cancel!

OP I can't believe you're still getting people suggesting lunch!

Two things really, post the update.

It sounds a bit like you steamrollered through the plans for the leaving do based on what suited you and to some degree the lady who's leaving, rather than the whole team. It's easy to see why 30 mins drive, nowhere to stay over, having to skip the booze doesn't sound like a great arrangement.

A more collaborative approach might have yielded more loyalty. People find it harder to duck out of plans they have had a hand in making.

Secondly, work dos don't aren't the same as social obligations and the same rules don't apply. Given the choice between 2 competing work dos, I think people are absolutely within their rights to prioritise what benefits them in work terms.

In this case, it's a choice between spending time with someone who's leaving - and while it's nice to do this, it's irrelevant to their future working life. Or spending time with the wider team, networking, etc. It's an absolute no brainier to prioritise that.

YABU.

Secondly, work dos don't aren't the same as social obligations and the same rules don't apply.

Agreed. Also, I would ditch a collegues leaving do in favor of a more recently arranged social event with friends. Or I would pop in for one drink then go.

I just can't see me driving 30 miles and paying for a meal for a colleges leaving do at all TBH. We generally go down to the local pub and the person leaving puts £100 behind the bar.

Another thing is that even if I did intend to go to colleagues leaving do, I'd be hugely annoyed if my manager started implying that I had to go and being snotty about it.

Any whiff of that and zero chance I'd be driving 30 mins each way to toast someone who's either just got a better paid job than me or is retiring on a nice pension just to boost their ego and that of the person who earns more than I do.

There is a saying, that people generally don't leave their jobs they leave their manager. Something to bear in mind perhaps. I think if my Manager gave me a bit of a patronising Mummy talk about going to a leaving do it would change certainly my view towards them and the dynamics.

I would prioritise a 'proper' work do over a leaving do for a colleague because I'd be concerned how it would look to higher management that I valued a colleague who has decided to leave the company over my current employer. Like it or not in some companies you have to show a bit of willing to rub shoulders with the wider workforce, and perhaps they feel the same.

As a side you keep calling them "these women" - perhaps your general disdain for them also shows in your day to day interactions which may be another reason why they would rather go to the bigger do.

Secondly, work dos don't aren't the same as social obligations and the same rules don't apply.
^^ Agree. If they'd opted for something with friends instead then I'd think they were rude but a works do is different. There are often unspoken expectations involved & even if there aren't people may still feel obliged to go.

From the leaver's POV I would be mortified- I'd HATE having any kind of "do" in the knowledge that all this awkwardness and discussion preceded it. Imagine if they did change their minds out of guilt and did go to your do. Leaver would know full well they'd rather be somewhere else.

Just CRINGE.

I still don't understand why you can't have the leaving do on a different night eg. the night before (if lunch is impossible) (but I suspect it is because it wouldn't suit OP).

re update from Op about if I have to deal with my exTwat I want to have a good time - it sounds more and more like it's OP's night out and her plan as to what constitutes a good time rather than the leaver!

If 2 things clash and people can't make one it is entirely their choice which to go to.

Have never been to a leaving do which is not within walking distance of the workplace as usually it is a straight from work thing.

LOL at "everyone gets a lunch break"

Plenty of people get a lunch break of completely rigid timings. I get 30 mins, not long enough to get to a pub and back, never mind eat snd drink.

There are plenty of teams in which it would be impossible for the whole team to go out together for lunch:

Teachers
Nurses
Canteen workers
IT helpline team
Doctors' receptionists

That's just four example I came up with after 10 seconds of idle thought. There must be thousands of others.

Five!