Should babies be assigned a sex at birth or choose their own

[bambambini]

Is that where we are heading? Following a twitter conversation that touched on identity politics. what do folk really make of this stuff? mobile.twitter.com/AsiaKateDillon/status/881501055657414659

It "invalidated (their) womanhood".

How so, if being a woman has nothing to do with having a vagina?

One runs a real risk of going mad if one tries to understand the insane logic.

It "invalidated (their) womanhood".

God give us strength?

How did they process the complaint?

Sorry, rogue punctuation.

Just found the quote "Delusion is short, remorse is long" in a dictionary. Apparently it's by Schiller.

I hope it will apply to the trans cult, but who knows. It really could be 50 years before most people wake up.

(Though it does seem most people on mumsnet finally got it)

invalidating their womanhood God, give me strength! That person needs a proctologist! My brain is going to explode.

Has nobody been on to shout "transphobes/bigots" yet? Probably because this isn't in Feminist chat. Usually anything gender critical gets rounded on.

This thread is quite refreshing in that respect.

Hmmmm, no ones sighed and said "not another trans thread" either.

Hopefully people are realising that these changes will affect all of us, particularly if you have a daughter.

Just looked up this Asia person on Google. Started reading about them on Wiki and then thought: I am so bored of all this attention-seeking crap. Reading the word "they" all the way through the article just sounded so painfully artificial.

More than anything else, it's symptomatic of the hideously self-absorbed world we live in now.

In my newsfeed the other day a family's fight to have sex removed from all government records (for everyone) because of the mother has struggled with their own sexed body (obviously they are female, but it looks like they are on testosterone given the wispy beard and they claim a 'non binary' identity). They have so far succeeded in registering their new baby as a 'U' instead of their actual sex. How this benefits the child is beyond me.

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/parent-fights-to-omit-gender-on-b-c-child-s-birth-certificate-1.4186221

Canada has just passed federal gender identity protecting legislation so they may well be successful too.

In RL, all non-binary theys I have met were young females who are eager to impress.

Ok, looks like Asia just can't say no to people. This twitter chat she had with a TA shows why some folk end up tying themselves in knots trying to please everyone and why anyone who doesn't agree 110% gets labelled TEEF, bigot or transphobe - this shows how crazy it is.

mobile.twitter.com/AsiaKateDillon/status/830093940950966272

TERF

There is no pleasing them

A member of DP's family has started to transition and PIL are basically only hearing about anything transgender for the first time. They're pretty live and let live so it was information they were asking me for.

I tried to explain the various issues, and the difference between the meaning of 'gender' from a transgender and a gender critical perspective. Explaining complex ideas clearly and in an accessible way is a key part of my work, and I would say I am good at it, but I found myself getting nowhere.

Both PIL would say they are in no way sexist, and frequently mention how gendered toys are, for example. However, it became clear that they believe that there are overriding differences in male and female brains that mean they are suited to different things. They also feel they have an innate gender identity, and were shocked to hear that I didn't have the first idea what that's would feel like. I think these ideas may be a lot more common than I thought.

The fact that many schools in the US don't have proper biology lessons to begin with probably explains why all of the US went gender crazy

What are you talking about?

It's like it's make shit up about America week on MN

Basket PIL I'd agree with about the 'innate differences in the brain'. I mean, hormones, yes? But innate gender identity is a different thing. That's how you relate to what society says you should be doing/wearing as a male or female. So, maybe you don't neatly enjoy being society's exact idea of a woman. Doesn't make your brain any less female.
We are animals. Anything more complex on top of that is cultural and subject to change.

Carousel Ah, yes I was quite unclear as to what I actually meant! I don't disagree that hormones have an effect on us, and for example, the cyclical nature of menstruation could mean women have a very different experience to men in how they see something like feeling happy.

What they were saying was innate was he ability to do 'wifework' basically - do MIL is biologically better at remembering that they're running out of milk, and FIL is better at putting stuff in a boot.

I'm very pro-trans but this is nonsense and nothing to do with/not coming from actual trans people. Just Tumblr SJW nonsense.

Kids need to be raised with a clear sense of identity, and that includes sex. I don't agree with gender stereotypes ("girls can't do maths" "boys don't cry" and all that pink/blue shit) but kids need to grow up comfortable in their own skin. Knowing that if they do end up being trans (a tiny, tiny % of people) their parents will support them.

The one exception is babies born medically intersexed or with "ambiguous genitalia." In those cases, where the baby's biological sex is not clear, in the past it's been down to the doctor to literally assign them a sex and sometimes enforce that decision surgically. That's very wrong. But of course these cases are extremely rare.

If sex becomes something babies decide for themselves, it would be really convenient to have a word that means "person with a vagina", and another for "person with a penis". Something shorthand that's easy to say, because even in a post-sexist utopia there will be times it is necessary to identify which group you are talking about. Pwav and pwap maybe? Bit crap. What a shame there aren't already perfectly good words we could use!

And how does a baby choose it's sex? Some sort of test once its old enough to grab perhaps? Maybe see which toy it randomly selects: pink doll = girl, blue football = boy, toy mouse = cat.
So much more scientific than allowing a medical professional to make an observation based on the child's physical characteristics!

Re: smear test, they had to deal with it very sensitively and explain that the MTT didn't have a cervix. They also had to apologise. The MTT pushed for the surgery to do a fake smear on them to validate their gender but the surgery argued it was a waste of resources. The person left the surgery and their NHS page got some abusive reviews.

Ridiculous, it is assigned at birth depending on your genitals. What you do later is up to you.

Really wish people would stop calling this nonsense. It dismisses the seriousness of this. Ireland, USA and Canada have all changed their laws to favour self identification of gender and protect those rights over sex based protections. There are numerous articles about transwomen with intact functioning penis' in women's prisions (and reports of sexual harassment from them), mtt in female homeless shelters, in dv refuges, and mtt boys in school assaulting the girls they are allowed in changing facility's with. There are proposals for the same laws in the UK and already sports, some schools, NHS, and some prisions including a mtt rapist in a woman's prision. It's not nonsense it's really fucking scarey and a huge risk to all females.

I'm very pro-trans but this is nonsense and nothing to do with/not coming from actual trans people. Just Tumblr SJW nonsense.

Are you not aware laws are made on basis of this? There is nothing "just" about women being forced to shower naked in the presence of a male rapist in prisons. (And yes, this already happens. This is not a theory, it is what happens when you put men in women's prisons because of their genderfeelz)

Laws are made, and it is the very same laws other "pro-trans" people like yourself believe benefit trans people. The very same laws that force women to share toilets with males are the laws that take away the privacy of girls in changing rooms, and lead to women being subjected to prison rape by MALES WITH PENISES.

If you don't agree with this shit, you need to speak up, and you need to distance yourself from allegedly "pro-trans" laws.

@Aeroflotgirl:

"Assigned" is not really the correct word. The sex is there, no one has to assign one, people can merely observe it. Only in intersex babies does someone make a decision; and that's very rare.

The MTT pushed for the surgery to do a fake smear on them to validate their gender but the surgery argued it was a waste of resources.

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps it would have been a good use of resources to do a fake smear on his anus.
If they'd done it as gently as the smear test I had forced/coerced onto me by a gynecologist, (I was bleeding afterwards) then perhaps he would have realized that medical tests designed for females weren't really for him, and left them alone forevermore.

Really wish people would stop calling this nonsense. It dismisses the seriousness of this.

Well, it IS nonsense. But I don't get the people who think it will go away if they ignore it.

Everyone who identifies as pro-trans and unthinkingly votes for pro-trans laws should be very aware that the blood of women is, or will be, on their hands.
And calling the more idiotic parts of trans agenda "tumblr nonsense" won't make you the slightest bit less guilty if you vote to take away women's rights.

I really hope "fake smear for validation" is going to be the most stupid thing I hear all week. I bet it won't though