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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should babies be assigned a sex at birth or choose their own

245 replies

bambambini · 02/07/2017 20:12

Is that where we are heading? Following a twitter conversation that touched on identity politics. what do folk really make of this stuff? mobile.twitter.com/AsiaKateDillon/status/881501055657414659

Should babies be assigned a sex at birth or choose their own
OP posts:
CherriesInTheSnow · 05/07/2017 11:07

Mm hmm exactly.

And why is it that it is always people who identify as non binary who push this crap? You have chosen to identify as non binary, that is absolutely fine and I completely respect that.

But you have CHOSEN via a conscious decision to identify that way. It does not change the fact that you have a biological sex and that is a reality.

The fact that babies can be "identified" as having no "assigned" gender is obviously ridiculous but although it sounds like it's just stupid and something to be scoffed at, as VestalVirgin said earlier in the thread, that it could potentially have really damaging consequences especially for women if we move to a world where people simply verbally state their gender, and is just another way to skew the inequalities already rife for women all over the world.

The world doesn't have to adjust to your massively inaccurate view point that is hugely influenced by your own prism of experience to make you feel vindicated in your beliefs, Asia!

VestalVirgin · 05/07/2017 13:57
SchadenfreudePersonified · 05/07/2017 22:41

I consider myself a ciscat* who identifies as an Amur Leopard, therefore reaping the benefits of a catalpa, not being answerable to anybody for anything I do, and being a protected species with a particularly fluffy tail and rather nice spots.

*There is no such thing as a "lowly" cat of any type. The correct term for a "lowly" cat is "dog". Grin

SchadenfreudePersonified · 05/07/2017 22:42

*catflap, not catalpa, whatever the hell that is

Typing with paws leaves you at the mercy of the autocorrect.

squishysquirmy · 06/07/2017 13:25

I'm was coersively assigned cat at birth, but I identify as a mouse.....
It is completely bigoted and actual violence when pet shops refuse to let me into the mouse cage. I have just as much right to be there as the mice.

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 06/07/2017 14:05

I was coercively assigned middle class at birth. Luckily I have rectified this since.

squishysquirmy · 06/07/2017 14:36

Are you Countess BeyondDrinks now? Grin

BasketOfDeplorables · 06/07/2017 14:51

A catalpa is an excellent free!

BasketOfDeplorables · 06/07/2017 14:51

Tree!

SchadenfreudePersonified · 07/07/2017 12:28

squishy

My heart goes out to you!

I have bought you a wheel of your very own, but You'll have to come to my lair home to collect it as I have no transport.

nothingishallwant · 07/07/2017 12:38

You can choose? Oh excuse me while I go and grow myself a penis Confused

squishysquirmy · 07/07/2017 13:19

SchadenfreudePersonified
Are you assuming I like wheels, just because I am a mouse? Next you'll be telling me all mice like cheese and are small in size! We need to redefine what a mouse is.

ElusiveDuck · 07/07/2017 16:09

Hate seeing the words 'man' and 'woman' misappropriated to create a "gender identity", when they're just the human equivalent of stallion/mare, lion/lioness, dog/bitch. Nothing to do with the concept of gender, everything to do with being any easy way to reference your species, reproductive sex, and maturity.

These words don't imply anything about internal feelings, merely physical reality. It's society that has created "gender roles" by dividing up the huge spectrum of human behaviour into a binary between 'femininity' and 'masculinity', and associating each binary with a certain sex, thus creating the whole idea of "gender".

All behaviours belong to both sexes, so gender is oppressive and useless.

The fact is that being an adult human male/female (there are only two sexes, intersex is a birth abnormality/chromosomal disorder that doesn't negate the sex binary) is what makes you a 'man' or a 'woman'. Biology, not the social constructions surrounding these biologies.

However, you don't have to be the "feminine woman" and "masculine man" that society expects you to be, so to say someone is 'Cisgender' and the other is 'Transgender' on the basis that their human behaviour conforms or non-conforms to society's gender ideals for their sex, just reinforces the lie that certain behaviours/feelings/fashions belong on certain bodies.

Without gender, none of this would be a problem - there would be no Cis/Trans distinction because there would be no expectations of femininity or masculinity placed on you at birth, so the idea of having the wrong/right body to represent your inner feelings wouldn't exist.

That's how I feel about 'gender identity' politics, anyway.

Datun · 07/07/2017 19:27

ElusiveDuck

Excellent. And spot on.

WombOfOnesOwn · 07/07/2017 19:43

Imagine the havoc this would wreak on your average farmer.

"Put all the bovines together in a herd, it's all ok, you don't know what they identify as and there's no such thing as male or female. What really IS a female cow body? What IS a male bull body? Are you sure you're not being exclusionary?"

Or quail, where the poor things must be kept in units of 3-4 females to every male to avoid the females being mated literally to death -- I suppose we should just allow all the quail to go where they like, so the gender identity doctrine is respected.

I think it's very funny how transactivists claim there's no such thing as male or female, but I bet if I gave them a glass of "milk" I'd gotten from a bull, they'd balk.

Datun · 07/07/2017 19:49

It's this slight mental disconnect that allows you to except something, because it makes it easier socially, that in reality you know isn't true.

Which would be fine. If it didn't suddenly erase the meaning of the word woman!

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 07/07/2017 19:58

Some of those rapist ducks identify as female. NAM(allards)ALT.

Leontine · 07/07/2017 20:25

Agree completely with ElusiveDuck. In regards to the gender identity debate, people seem to use the words gender and sex interchangeably even though they're not synonyms. It causes a lot of problems as things kind of get lost in translation.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 08/07/2017 16:57

I bet if I gave them a glass of "milk" I'd gotten from a bull, they'd balk

Grin
VestalVirgin · 08/07/2017 20:04

I think it's very funny how transactivists claim there's no such thing as male or female, but I bet if I gave them a glass of "milk" I'd gotten from a bull, they'd balk.

Someone needs to set up a business selling milkshakes to trans allies.

Put a big sign over the door "Trans friendly milk bar" or something, and ... I suppose there's health regulations against selling bull sperm as food? But if one pasteurized it? Perhaps one could sell actual milk, only, though it would be necessary to keep that a secret.

Anyway, when they pay for their drink, every customer gets a nice little card informing them about the various shapes that cow's udders come in. With a nice picture of a bull penis.

I would just love to see the reactions. Grin

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