Should babies be assigned a sex at birth or choose their own

[bambambini]

Is that where we are heading? Following a twitter conversation that touched on identity politics. what do folk really make of this stuff? mobile.twitter.com/AsiaKateDillon/status/881501055657414659

*choose .

She is an utter idiot. I am so weary of this creeping stupidity.

We should stop assigning DoB at birth. Who is the doctor to say I was born on April the 7th? I feel like I was born on November 23rd.

"genitals dictate the gender"

Genitals determine sex.

Gender is socially constructed.

We cannot choose our sex.

Gender is a spectrum. Some aspects of gender may or may not be shaped by our biology. Mostly gender is socially constructed.

There are females who, due to their personality, physique, mannerism, voice etc., appear more 'feminine' or 'masculine' than other females within a specific cultural setting.

There are males who, due to their personality, physique, mannerism, voice etc., appear more 'feminine' or 'masculine' than other males within a specific cultural setting.

And then there are females who long to appear 'masculine' and males who long to be 'feminine'

And then of course there are females who long to appear more 'feminine' than they feel they are and males who long to appear more 'masculine' than they feel they are.

Sex IS, it cannot be chosen (unless through extreme medical intervention).

I say, let people be who they feel they are. Men and women ought to feel free and comfortable to dress and behave in a way that suits their gender identity.

Gender is about appearance. Sex is biology.

When it is sex that presents key binary difference people ought to be categorised by their sex not self perceived gender.

E.g.

Sports competition segregate by sex if being male presents an advantage in the discipline (probably not ballroom dancing):

• Females
• Males

Health and medical sector segregate by sex:

• Females
• Males

Fashion, marketing, music, arts etc. don't segregate at all.

Gender is a different matter, that is a construct created by society rather than a biological fact. And it seems people can choose their gender hence why there are transgender people of all ages.

But you cannot choose your gender. Not when your sex is female.

You cannot opt out of being oppressed under patriarchy, which is what gender is all about.

You will be paid less than a man, you will be treated with contempt by sexist men, you will be targeted for rape and you will be targeted for femicide, unless you make so extreme changes to your female body that it looks like a male body and your voice sounds like a male voice.
(And if you do that, your health is messed up and you depend on artificial hormones for the rest of your life.)

The genderists sell women the lie that they can opt out of patriarchy by simply declaring themselves male or - even siller - nonbinary.

And the sad thing is that some women believe it, and are genuinely surprised when a man rapes them despite their repeatedly telling him that they don't identify as female.

If we could opt out of sex-based oppression by declaring ourselves some silly gender, it would not be sex-based oppression in the first place.

Sex IS, it cannot be chosen (unless through extreme medical intervention)

I don't think science is that far yet.

Though I heard they are working on changing people's genetic makeup. So perhaps it will become possible in the future.

Now, it is definitely not possible. You can mutilate a body so that it superficially somewhat resembles the other sex, but that's about it.

No.
For so very many reasons including sex linked medical conditions.

But as Asia (just realised who she is) points out - who has actually had their chromosomes tested? The doctor or midwife does just decide on a quick glance at birth.

If we treated both (all) genders equally and fairly, then it wouldn't matter.

You're right Vestal

I hope all this crap dies down soon. So boring and strange. I can't understand the mindset of people that actually bother with it. Counting the hairs on my cat would interest me more.

Gender is a load of shite made up to oppress women.

Sex is biological.

"Femininity" and "masculinity" are constructs for selling products that no one outside of Twitter/Tumblr/right-wing conservatism give a shit about.

Genitalia and secondary sex characteristics are biological.

Well laws are being changed on the basis that gender is now more important than sex - so not dying down yet.

But as Asia (just realised who she is) points out - who has actually had their chromosomes tested? The doctor or midwife does just decide on a quick glance at birth.

Because, handily, chromosomes determine genitalia

Those rare cases where the chromosomes don't match are either apparent at birth (ambiguous genitalia) or at puberty (secondary sex characteristics don't match genitalia).

I read somewhere, on a very dubious blog, that a lot of this sort of thinking comes from the idea that societies are by and large stifled by rule and order dogma. The idea goes that we can't really achieve an all-encompassing successful society because we are conditioned to follow said rules without ever questioning them.

Whilst I agree that critical thinking is a vital skill lacking in society - when used as a tool to propagate this sort of 'identity politics' bullshit, it really does rankle.

I don't think intersex/ those with DSDs should necessarily be assigned a gender/sex (and certainly not receive treatment in any way for it until they have capacity to make the decision themselves) but it can be completely impossible to tell at birth

The existence of female genitalia at birth, development of breasts (without medical intervention), periods, pregnancy, childbirth, menopause are pretty solid chromosome tests.

Oh dear god whatever next.

It is very rarely impossible to tell at birth. True intersex conditions are vanishingly rare.

The doctor or midwife does just decide on a quick glance at birth.

True, you only certain for sure when you have gone through puberty.

But for 99% of people, what the midwife and your parents assume you are, you actually turn out to be.

If you think you are female and never start to menstruate, then it is possible you are not actually female, but that's incredibly rare. And then you still haven't been "assigned" the female sex, people just guessed wrong about what it is.

The only people who are ever "assigned" a gender are intersex babies, and I am very much against that. They should have their own category so that no one feels a need to chop off a baby's genitals and then call it a girl. Girls aren't non-boys.

Using intersex as a basis for throwing out sex is like declaring that humans are a species with no legs because the odd person is born with their legs missing.

Ah yes, you are assigned a gender just after you have come out of a woman's body. Sex is observed, not assigned.

It isn't hard to tell which sex you are but the good news is both sexes can wear what they like and have any personality they choose.

Gender = sexist stereotypes.

I am sick of this sexist bullshit.

Thank god vestal always turns up on these threads to provide a nice strong dose of informed common sense.

Should species be assigned at birth?

What about the people who identify as cats, goddammit!

Loving the idea of a gentleman vagina.

Are there also scoundrel and bounder vaginas?

No one is assigned a sex. You can't assign sex, it is a biological reality.

If you could, all those Chinese and Indian women who are forced to abort their female fetuses, would be able to declare that the fetus hasn't been assigned female but male, because sex is a human construct and we can decide it at will.

Funny how farmers don't seem to have thought about assigning sex to their calves and pigs and other animals. They just identify the sex by the bleedin' obvious.