In thinking Dsis should put DN first.

[KungFuPandaWorksOut16]

Backstory :- Dn is one of 6. My sister was in a bad relationship last year which produced the 6th child. The relationship had a massive impact on all the children. DN is in year 6 and has suffered bullying (now sorted) and had problems with her eating.

My sister has announced to the family she is now pregnant with number 7. Came as a massive shock as we didn't know she had a partner, turns out she had the children lie. The baby bomb shell has upset DN, she feels completely pushed out and scared this relationship will be another repeat of the last one.

I am very close with DN since everything that happened last year she has spent a few days a week with me since, and my sister was ok with this. DN has expressed some concerns and has now asked can she live with me, I've told my sister this and she thinks DN is just being a mard arse and will come round too the idea of a new sibling and a father figure.

Her plan is to just let DN finish her "tantrum" and everything will be fine. I have disagreed with her and suggested maybe she has a heart to heart with DN. DSIS has refused because she believes that's playing into DN hands.

My sister is a lovely person, just at times she makes stupid decisions. She thinks with her heart most of the times instead of her head and I believe at the moment isn't taking DN fears and worry seriously as she is just so focused on her new relationship and baby. She has always wanted that happy ending and she thinks this is it.

Of course I want too see my Dsis happy but at the same time Dn isn't happy and feels ignored.

I honestly don't know what more I can say or what I can do.

I'd call SS. Also your DN was right, your sister will probably have a new man in no time. She has seen this behaviour be repeated many time so she knows.

The oldest avoids home like the plague.
DN stays with you, any time she can.
The next has a decent dad, so that's a slither of normal there.
The younger ones are too young to understand all this shit.

She's an unfit mother who thinks of her vagina more than her own kids.

Please, please, call SS.

Your sister is a vile, disgusting, piece of shit and doesn't deserve to have any of her children.

Is there a way you can become Dan's legal guardian, even if sister tries to prevent it? (I'm not in the UK, so don't know the legalities around the ins and outs of it there).

*DN, Dan's!

"I think she is just fixated on having the dream family life. She's just not realising that when you are a parent you can't just make a decision on a whim, you have too think of the children."

Your sister doesn't seem to see her children as separate people, does she? Or possibly not even people at all. They are bit-players in the film of her life. She does all the physical stuff, playing her role as 'mum' - the cleaning, feeding, dressing - but is emotionally self-absorbed, and so 'unavailable' to her children.

She has a "dream family life" and ignores all the bits of real life that don't conform to the dream. So; the bullying, the eating disorder (thankfully nipped in the bud by you), her eldest actively avoiding her, the effect her last relationship had on her children; all ignored, minimised, swept under the carpet!

No, she's not a nice person.

And now this latest farrago. Her new partner sounds like a total shit. 'Your mum said you have to respect me, so I'm going to boss you about and gloat about you not being able to do anything about it'. That's basically his attitude towards an eleven-year-old CHILD. No, your sister's household is no longer a safe place for your niece to be. It has effectively forced your hand, and your niece's, and made her living with you the ONLY choice.

I don't think you should be worrying about how to repair the mother-daughter relationship, or what this relationship will be like when your niece is an adult, because frankly - I'm not sure your sister is capable of a mother-child relationship once the child is old enough to express preferences or articulate emotions. Essentially, your niece (and her big brother) are more mature than your sister. She tries to handle this by ordering them about like minions four-year-olds, and guess what, it doesn't work! The block to improving relations is not your niece, or you taking her in - it is your sister's self-absorption and immaturity. And without your sister growing the fuck up, your niece is better off by far with you, now and in the future.

I am concerned for your nephew. He's not just avoiding being asked to do anything; he's avoiding his mother, her partner and the whole set-up. Maybe it's time for your dad and brother to have a sincere talk with him, draw him out on what he feels and what he needs and what he wants. His mother sure as hell won't.

Great post where and I especially agree with this
I'm not sure your sister is capable of a mother-child relationship once the child is old enough to express preferences or articulate emotions.

One of the best things you can do for your DN is to show her what a stable, loving family dynamic looks like. She'll need this counterbalance to her mother's chaotic lifestyle if she's to have a chance of forming healthy boundaries and relationships as an adult. You're doing an amazing thing for her.

Perhaps a visit to a solicitor is in order at this point

Do this.

Before you talk to SS.

You're end game is to keep DN safe. You will need an unofficial fostering arrangement or you'll have to go to your sister for every school trip sign off, trip to doctors, consent for immunisations, holidays etc.

Find out what your legal position is and figure out if it's best to persuade your sister to sign guardianship over or best to go all guns blazing with SS when it will be their word against DN. it'll be a battle royal.

You're doing great, but nows the time for caution.

Obviously though if DN has any bruising to her face, you need to get that officially documented and the ball will roll itself.

She called her mum a slag? That's not acceptable, is it? And in an 11 year old it is quite shocking
She didn't.
The new partner was gloating and having a go saying "you should respect me because your mum says so and by the way I'm your new dad now. Get over it."
The niece responded by telling the new partner "yeah whatever. Dont think so. She'll have a new man soon anyway" because that's the pattern she's seen. No man lasts and the last one was abusive and her mother is STILL concerned about having new babies with new man.

What concerns me is that this man thinks it's fine to throw his weight around with the older kids aka 'respect me because your mam says I'm your new dad'.
And when a child stands up to him he stirs it up with their mother knowing that the mother will back him over the child.

He sounds like he has potential to be as abusive as the last man she had playing daddy.

Pengggwn
Ah right. Cross post.

I think the OP may be seeing the niece in a slightly better light than she actually is. But then I also think it's hardly surprising that the child is acting out given her mother's actions and home situation.

Pengggwn
I agree on missing information.

I think there are different types of respect though. An authority respect, an elderly respect, basic human respect etc.

I think the niece should show him basic human respect but as a step parent he earns the parent last respect by being a decent parent figure.

The mother has created a situation where the children aren't exposed to respectful relationships so their blue print must be way off and being told year in year out to respect a new man as their dad must get to the point where a child starts to question. E.g. why should I respect this one when he's the 4th one along and will only go again

(Sort of like when I've worked with vulnerable kids they're very much 'why should I trust you and open up when you could just be another adult who leaves')

And Dn responded No point in asking her because she'll have a new man soon. (Yes I know wasn't very good of her saying that)

Not very good of her to tell the truth? The saddest thing here is how a young child is more astute about her mother's unhealthy relationships than the woman herself. I hope she doesn't grow up thinking this is normal, at least she has a backbone to call out her mother on her terrible behaviour. Not that it should have been up to her in the first place, how did things get this bad without others noticing?

As for informing SS, the fact is if you won't, it's only a matter of time before the school, their neighbour's or someone else does.

My DN lives with us now (but due to being orphaned a few years ago). She tells me stories of what went on before her mum died. I regret not offering her more support when things were bad when she was younger.

I think you should support your DN, your sister is selfish and not stepping up to be her mum. Nevertheless, would you be willing not to grow your family for her if needs be?

I was speaking to my husband about this. As he says these situations never end well until outside services (in this case Social Services) are called in. So call Social Services and keep your daughter save with you.

Your DN is a child under very trying circumstances and is just reacting to the stress in her life so I think we should give her a lot of slack.

And I am going to be honest your sister is a lady of no moral character (colloquially known as a "slag") which is fine as she is the adult but you do not bring children into the mix.

If we are honest your sister will keep this partner for a while and then move onto someone else - she has an established behavioural pattern for this.

Keep your niece save, bring in the local authorities and I have you in my thoughts and prayers (if that is alright)

*niece not daughter (blame sleep deprivation)

My dad worked for social services. The damage done by women putting their latest boyfriend before their children is tragic. And unfortunately common.

I'd make sure your dn knows your door is always open. And try and support your sister as much as you can. And don't hesitate to involve ss they do a lot to help, despite being unfairly portrayed as child snatching busybodies.

Pengggwn, whilst I disagree with the word 'slag', NellieBuff is quite right. If a man or woman wants to jump from one relationship to another, as an adult that is their prerogative. Sleep with the entire country if it so pleases you, have as many toxic partners as you want. However when there are children in the mix, there's no excuse for living a 'free spirit' lifestyle, and there's little surprise the child or posters on here are judging her behaviour. When it affects others, then it shows that the mother does lack respect, for herself and her family.