To want a daughter so very much

[seaotterly]

I have a DS, who is 18 months.

I am desperate for a girl.

It is putting me off TTC another as I would feel so awful as secretly I don't want another son.

I know im being unreasonable

I have a DD and a DS. My DD adores being cuddled - she accepts hugs, cuddles and kisses as her due, signs of devotion from her subjects. My DS adores dispensing hugs, kisses and cuddles, he seems to thrive on physical contact in a way my DD doesn't.

My DD feels very familiar to, she looks like me and approaches problem solving like me - but I am learning to realise that we are very different people and I cannot assume how she feels based on how I might feel in a similar situation.

My DS has felt very unfamiliar from the outset, but learning to know him has been a joy. As he gets old, I am realising that we share a similar sense of humour and worries about the world...although we don't always express ourselves in the same way.

Everyday I learn new things about my children and new skills to help me parent them. I can't take my DD for granted and my DS is more similar to me than I ever realised. They are both individuals I have to respect that, not try to force them into a shape that fits my picture of them.

Both my children are wonderful and life-enhancing (and trying and exhausting and frustrating). I can't begin to think how desperately sad it must be to feel unable to anticipate the joy of having a child because their genitals are the wrong sort.

RhubardGin - to parent a woman rather than a man, surely?

This is such an interesting discussion - because you have two fundamental 'truths' which seem to come together and clash here - it's interesting to see people's take on it.

Truth one: all children are different. Gender doesn't matter. It will be an unique relationship with each and every one. Sharing gender certainly doesn't mean you'll end up having more in common with them or be closer to them.

Truth two: relationships between women are different to those between women and men. How many women end up having close male friendships which are qualitatively the same as those they have wth their closest female friends? Friendship aside, take a look around MN at least and you see countless examples of women appreciating and coming together to discuss pressures/expectations/challenges which primarily relate to women. We are all feminists, etc.

I think it is a given that having other women in your immediate family group will mean a different life experience than if you do not have other women in it. Nothing to do with clothes and hair or even getting on, particularly. Just being. OP is right, it's hard to explain. But such is the clash with Truth 1 above that quite rightly, parents will jump on this in the fear that somehow it equates to having expectations of an INDIVIDUAL child because of their gender.

I used to know someone who had three grown up sons and one grown up daughter - she was fairly close to all of them, and they all went on holiday with her at one point or another.

My son is (at the moment - he's 11) very close to me, but that may just be his personality - he has ASD and doesn't really get the whole 'blokey' thing and is still in many ways a little boy.

My daughter is almost 14 and at the moment fairly brittle.

I find parenting both of them draining in some ways and very rewarding in others. When they are small it can be easier to think in terms of boy stuff/girl stuff that you're most comfortable with, but as they get older they become very much their own people, and that may well include not fitting into gender stereotypes.

Your son is still very young, unless there are time pressures do you need to try for another baby now? Maybe work through some of your feelings - do you want to have a girl because that's how you'd imagined motherhood (which is fine)? If you had another boy, would you be really disappointed, or would the newborn phase win you over?

I wanted to have a girl - I had a sister, she had two daughters, I used to think I wouldn't know how to 'cope' with a boy. Then I had a daughter, and I assumed I would have another one, but I had my son. Who was gorgeous and snuggly and his own little person. Who could pee on my shoulder at nappy changes in a way my daughter didn't but in the early years that was the only difference. Who went through Thomas and Lego phases - but so had his sister. And who now witters at me about Pokémon whilst his sister witters at me about teenage social media stuff. They're both lovely.

DH is much closer to his mum than i am to mine. He speaks to her almost every day. So personally i don't think that every mother/daughter relationship is closer than mother/son one.

I've grown up knowing that my dad has always wanted a son but got two daughters instead. At times it's made me sad but we've given him some wonderful gransons instead.

Writerwannabe

I really like your post but I'd also caution against thinking you'll "get another one" of your son. All that may be the same is that he pees in your face when you change his nappy!

As I said above, my two teen boys are and always have been very unalike. What they share is a sense of humour and they get on really well (luckily)

YANBU OP
I don't know why it is so difficult to accept for some people. I accept that someone can equally want a boy or a girl, please accept that some people - like OP or myself - have a preference (not based on wanting to go shopping or dressing her up in pink glitter....)

FWIW I have boy/girl DT and even though I love them both the same, a part of me is still overjoyed to have a girl.

Loads of posts since I last posted exactly illustrating my final point. People homing in on the individual relationship between OP and 'the daughter' or 'the son'. OP baffled as she's not talking about the actual individual relationship - 'then I'd have a daughter who didn't go on shopping trips' - those things, those individual 'gender expectations' - are bullshit and aren't part of it, at all.

OP, what people mean is: what if your dd doesn't want to go on holidays or weekends away with you?

After all, lots of grown-ups prefer to go away with their own boyfriends or girlfriends or just with friends.

What if you turn out to have nothing in common with each other? What if you don't particularly understand each other? Will you be disappointed in her in a way that you won't be in her brother? Will you make her feel guilty because she was not able to live up to your expectations of a daughter?

.....MY mum speaks to my brother more than me. I think that's because he's the older one and more dutiful (possibly because he's the older one)

Birth order is also a factor in the relationship between parents and child

But it's acceptable to be close to your mum if you're a girl, not if you're a boy/man.

So challenge that. Bring up a boy, or several boys without limiting cultural stereotypes. We get a lot of 'pink stinks' stuff, for obvious reasons, but there's less discussion of the way in which patriarchal stereotypes (and the boys' clothes rack too often going from khaki to sludge brown, cars to violent cartoon characters) damage everyone, including boys. Bring up a boy without damaging stereotypes about how emotions are for girls, and boys need to learn to have an emotional range from grunting to farting, and that the ones who don't grow out of their mothers are probably gay.

I'm female, and I have two sisters as well as a brother, and none of us is 'friends' with our mother in holidays-and-shopping trips sense you seem to mean.

YANBU

I have 2 of each, love them all and wouldn't be with out any of them but have a special relationship with DD's.

We had 2 dsI'll then dd and I'll be honest, it is a totally different feeling having a girl.
But she (or rather her lack of sleep and general demeanour) has nearly broken us as individuals and our marriage. We love her dearly, but my god she has been hard work.
I have often wondered what it would it would to be like to have 3 boys

YABU and I agree with what corythatwas said about preconceived ideas about the genders.

I have two boys and it's absolutely brilliant. There is no reason why you can't have an amazing friendship with boys. My 3-year-old boy loves going to cafes and restaurants with me for lunch, chatting together, helping me look after his baby brother etc. He might grow out of this but girls can too.

I'll be a tad disappointed if we don't have a close relationship when he's grown up but again, exactly the same applies if he was a girl. I like to hope that a child of either gender would grow up to have some things in common with me and activities we can enjoy together. Other than having a vagina and periods etc I can't see why a daughter would automatically have anything special in common with her mum that a son can't also have. It's also how you bring them up... if you've got this attitude and misconception that a daughter would somehow be a more special friend than a son, your relationship with your son is going to be affected by these expectations.

My brother was much closer to my mum - they were very similar. I was the difficult gobby one.

Say what you want ... I think most people would find a mum and son going for a weekend away a bit odd TBH. but wouldn't raise an eyebrow at a mum and daughter.

Why ?
I've just come back from a holiday with my grown up son - it was great, and the only comments I've had were 'how fab / how lovely' etc

cory

I used to feel that, about my mum. I look at relationships she has with younger women (friends, nieces) and they are all more feminine that me, and less 'spiky'. We do get on well, , she's proud of me , we do love each other, but I don't think i was exactly what she was expecting in a girl

I completely understand how you're feeling OP only I want a boy.

I've got 2 sons aged 20 and 22. I'm incredibly close to them both. I've been away with DS2. He had to have interviews for university so instead of going on his own he asked me along and we made trips out of it. We had a great time.

My boys are fabulous. They are best friends. Neither of them are a PITA. We all get along just great. They are my friends, and DH's, as well as our sons.

DS1 has just this minute walked in, he's in the army, and planted a huge kiss on my head. He's now got the kettle on.

Enjoy your son, op.

Thanks, Fizzy

I think you do often - not always - end up with as someone said a different type of relationship.

I think in big families where there's a huge mix of brothers and sisters and cousins and grandparents and aunts and uncles and step parents perhaps it isn't so marked.

I am not a "girly" girl, at least in some ways. I'm not into makeup, or shopping, or spa days ... I don't mind them. But they are not my "hobbies."

I do love sitting with a book listening to the rain, watching my cats play, soaps, I suppose they are more traditionally feminine activities.

Children are individuals, any gender preference doesn't even slightly negate that fact. Just the same, female relationships are different, you can see this in other mammals too interestingly.

Fizzy, not all women have, or crave, that special close female friend. I haven't since I was about 10. I have had many good female friends, but never any as close as my closest male friend. Not because I "don't get on with women" but simply because that was the way my life panned out.

Nor do I have a group of girl friends that I go out with; when I go out it tends to be with a group of both sexes, mostly people I meet through work.

I have one of each. They are both bloody awful at times and wonderful in their own ways. It's down to the character of the child, as opposed to their gender.

Perhaps you could explore a bit more why you feel like this?

seaotterl

You talk about 'hopes for your children" but actually what you are talking about is "hopes for me"

Secondly

DS1 is introverted and quiet. Really funny and thoughtful - loves serious conversations
DS2 is more active, social and sporty. He's very loving and we share the same taste in TV

Ah seaotterly if it's any consolation my DH adores his mother. She's currently on holiday with her other son and his wife and children. To quote my husband "all boys adore their mothers". I'm sure that's a stereotype but I certainly feel my DS is much more accepting of me and my flaws than my DD who constantly questions my parenting (already, she's only 4) As he's frowns older I can see the things DS and I have in common. We're both foodies. He loves to try new foods. I have a fantasy that when he's an adult we'll go out for dinner and drinks together at all the best restaurants. Me and this handsome young man! It's hard to visualise their personalities when they're tiny and imagine how you'll fit into their lives as adults but trust me. If you want to, you will.

But this isn't about 'female' relationships but about parent/child relationships. Many many women on here will tell you that their relationship with their mother doesn't follow any of the patterns of their other female relationships.

As I said, I had plenty of friends so I didn't appreciate (or even respect in my teens and twenties) my mother's need to have a 'female' relationship with me. She was a parent.

Say what you want ... I think most people would find a mum and son going for a weekend away a bit odd TBH. but wouldn't raise an eyebrow at a mum and daughter

And what "most people" think is so important to you, you are letting it shape the relationship you have with your son?

Shame on you.