To want a daughter so very much

[seaotterly]

I have a DS, who is 18 months.

I am desperate for a girl.

It is putting me off TTC another as I would feel so awful as secretly I don't want another son.

I know im being unreasonable

OP,

If you don't mind me asking: what was/ is the relationship like between you and your mother?

I really, really am not trying to make you feel bad. I tried really hard to be thoughtful in my first post (in which I said you were not being unreasonable because you can't help what you want! I just think you need to examine why you want it). I do actually think it might do you a bit of good to think a bit about the ways in which you are lucky - I always find that counting my blessings helps me when things feel tough - but obviously you're not ready to do that. I will be leaving this thread now, but I really do hope you find a way to make peace with your situation and find a way through it.

No Cory because I'm not imagining the relationship. I've given a few vague examples when pressed because I'm trying to explain myself but it's actually other posters here who have decided what I want is a holiday companion.

I want a DAUGHTER :)

She might hate holidays, shopping, she might prefer to remove her nails with pliers than polish them, she might shave her head and be a lesbian ... she might don a pair of wellies and get a job artificially inseminating chimpanzees.

I don't care, it's nothing like the above I care about, I just for some reason I can't explain desperately want a daughter.

OP I'd leave it to be honest.

I can totally see the points of view of folk on this thread, it's a shame to end up arguing here I think because everyone is coming at it from a good angle.

It's quite right to knock back the idea that a child can't be 'good enough' or 'right' because of their gender.

If you did have another boy, you'd feel just the same for him. You'd be fine. I am sure.

But I get what you're trying to articulate, I think, so do a few others. It's not at all unusual. I can also understand a father having a preference for at least one of his children to share his gender.

I think you will be fine.

Ok, another viewpoint for balance, but I have a DS and a DD both under 4. My DS was first born and I was desperate for a girl (naturally very feminine, have a sister, lots of female friends etc and thought I would relate to her more I guess?). I found out I was having a boy at 20 weeks and whilst still very wanted, found it an adjustment to get my head around. My DS is amazing- very engaging, smart, good-looking. Masculine, but he likes feminine pursuits- does ballet (and football!), cooking and shopping with mummy. My DD I also found out at 20 weeks and was thrilled! (I did all the alkaline diet, trying to conceive at the beginning of ovulation girl - baby stuff too!) She is super feminine, beautiful and has a wonderful relationship with her brother. However I honestly love them both the same and purely because he is older, have a closer relationship with DS. What I'm trying to say is read up and do all your can to try and conceive a girl (no guarantees though) but make peace with your decision that if you a blessed with a DS, he will still be amazing and a 'best friend' etc as it is you instilling your key values in him and bringing him up.

Fizzy, the OP did specifically mention expectations of having an easier relationship, of going on holidays and weekends together, and admitted that she wanted "a friend". Those are the expectations she would be laying on her daughter.

Margaret please will you stop it? FWIW DS is actually the product of IVF. And several thousand pounds. And I know I am the lowest of the low for not being totally overjoyed as much as I love him (and I DO) I desperately want a daughter too.

But Fizzy is right and I should not have spoken about this.

OP YANBU.

I had 2 DSs then got pregnant and really wanted to have a girl. I did have a girl and was obviously ecstatic.

All my children are special and gorgeous and annoying and trying in lots of different ways at different times regardless of their sex.

To say girls are this and boys are that just isn't true IME.

I wanted a boy (though I didn't voice it when pregnant). I've no idea what my relationship with a daughter might have been like. My own relatives with my mum (and this includes my sister too) is fraught. We are a disappointment to her.

OP, I understand your "want" but we get what we're given and it usually all works out fine.

Ok, just seen cross-post. So you didn't mean what you said in one of your very first posts about a closer relationship? Well, we weren't to know that.

I picked up on that post, more than the holidays actually, because it seemed such a terribly sad thing that you should be looking at your 18mo son and be thinking of how you could have an easier and closer relationship with somebody else who hasn't even been born yet. Why not work on the relationship you have?

Give it time. The bond between mother and son can be incredible.

And if you wouldn't lay extra expectations on a daughter, then that is what matters.

If it was simply "oh I would prefer a daughter" then of course that is absolutely ok. As long as you are SURE that it is not, "I want a daughter because I expect her to feel specially close to me".

And obviously as long as you do not try to conceive another child until you are sure you are ok about your feelings for your son. Because if there is any problem there, you need to work on that first.

I also think it's sad when to persuade them they're being unreasonable we get these stereotypes about girls (and boys).
I really agree with you NoLoveofMine Can't stand the "all girls are bitchy, all boys are good natured" posts. Absolute bollocks.

Respectfully OP, what DID you want from this thread? Some of the replies are harshly worded, but posters are genuinely trying to help by pointing out that your preconceptions are actually misconceptions.

All the little girls I know are a total handful and their mums say so too - they're obviously lovely, but way more flighty, emotional, stubborn. Boys are very straightforward, what you see is what you get. Before becoming a parent I thought all these stereotypes were bollocks, but in my experience they hold true.

Well, you know what statistics say about adult men and their tendency for aggression.

I'd rather have a "flighty, emotional, stubborn" girl who grows up into a lovely daughter than a son who might be "straightforward" as a child, but then turn out to be a criminal.

If we're being sexist here, let's mention all the facts, yes?

Now, I don't know why OP would prefer a daughter.

But it is by no means sure it is because she'd feel justified to make a girl into a doll to dress up.

I'd want a girl, too. Simply because I think I am better suited to raising a girl than many other parents on whom girl babies are wasted, and who cage them in a pink prison from the first days of their lives.

So, no, not everyone who wants a girl would force gender stereotypes onto the baby.
Quite the opposite, actually.

I have probably said this before on here, but it bears repeating. I am bedridden with a long list of chronic conditions. My two DSs are in their mid twenties and still live at home. They wait on me hand and foot, when they are not working, bringing me food and drink, helping me when I collapse, cleaning me up when I lose control or vomit. They also come in and get into bed with me, holding me close when I cry. I don't think I could be closer to my two lads, do you?

oooh if you think the mother/daughter relationship is easier than mother/son I think you are very much in the minority .....

OP,

"...for some reason I can't explain desperately want a daughter."

That's why I asked what the relationship between you and your own Mother was, or is, like: it may help make sense of your strong feelings about wanting a daughter.
(If you are trying to understand them yourself, that is: you're under no obligation to divulge to us on here!).

But it's acceptable to be close to your mum if you're a girl, not if you're a boy/man.

This resonated with me. I have another thread on here I made today pertaining to someone's comment about me having dinner with my dad as an adult. It's not unacceptable, but it is decidedly less commonly understood than someone saying she's going to have mani-pedis with her mum.

The thing though, is that people are people at the end of the day. I get on splendidly with my dad, not so much with my mum. There's an initial closeness that comes with someone being the same sex as you, however, as they grow up, that will soon be overshadowed by the nurture portion of the equation.

I entirely understand where you're coming from OP. I felt the same. Good luck with TTC

This might be deleted but what the hell.

Just see this thread in right now: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2968034-To-think-shes-a-selfish-idiot

OP, you are well within your rights to have a preference. And it is also worth noting and remembering that once you become a MIL you will become satan.

Culture comes into play a great deal. I know of a few men that live with their wives and MILs but if you so much as floated that idea on here it'd be akin to asking if you could give your baby vodka mixed with coke.

OP, I agree with you though it's a touchy subject and most people won't. People are talking about how their 3 year old son or 11 year old son loves cuddles as if that negates every other thread on mumsnet about how awful MILs are.

And even when there's a good relationship, the relationship is DIFFERENT. There are even scientific studies showing that the maternal grandmother is statistically the most valued grandparent.

In one study of British teens, 9 out of 10 said that their maternal grandmother was the most important family member outside of their immediate family. The maternal grandfather was next. Closeness was fostered, according to the teens, by involvement in their school lives. In addition, 8 out of 10 teens said that their maternal grandmothers had discussed their futures with them and had given the teens good advice. (Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children, Bristol University, 2007)

Mothers (over MILs) are more likely to be in birthing rooms, see babies faster, babysit, spend time with family, go on holiday together. It's just a fact.

MILs might get those things as long you get on brilliantly with your DIL. If she doesn't like you, there's no holidays together, no anything. All at arm's length. The truth is that most people lean more on their maternal side of the family. And realistically, I want to be able to relax and enjoy my children and gchildren and us have fun together. Not hover outside on my best behavior waiting for instructions.

I wanted a daughter too (and have one). I'm not into shopping or clothes either. Trust me, it's worth it. No one will ever say this but daughters are everything you think and hope they would be. The mother-daughter bond is unique and special, as is the mother-son bond. But they are different. Don't let anyone pretend that they aren't. Getting to show the world to my daughter feels special in a way that nothing else can replicate.

From reading this thread you would assume that most women are closer to their dad than mum, and that all boys are easier to raise than girls...
Strangely enough in RL it seems to be the opposite...
I am closer to DM than DDad. I mostly have female friends. From what I know they are also closer to their DM.
My DH is closer to his DDad and mostly has make friends. DMIL has a very strong bond with DSIL though.

Oh and DD is so much easier than DS! They are only 3yo, I am sure it can change, but until now it is undeniable.

And all my friends with both boy and girl seem to be experiencing the same.

Just saying, just because all posters are pushing for women to be closer to their DDad and boys being easier than girls, it doesn't mean it is true...

I mentioned this thread to my mum I'm currently fighting with (I'm at parents'home waiting for my little boy to come in 1 week) and she said well, I wanted a daughter and I got you... and I would have preferred a baby girl as a nephew, but you'll see, our relationship will change in 1 week when you'll become a mum and understand many things you don't understand now.

I don't think so btw, and after reading the answers here I'm happier to be having a boy

But it's acceptable to be close to your mum if you're a girl, not if you're a boy/man

Why do people keep pushing this bullshit? Lots of boys/men are close to their mothers. They don't divorce their mothers when they get a wife.
It's offensive claptrap, and idealising these mother daughter roles while denigrating mother son ones will cause the very problems you worry about.

The best way to ruin your relationship with your son(s) is to harp on about how much you want a girl, and how much better that would be.