DH and DS have just had a fight

[OverTheHammer]

Don't know what to think. DS(16) has always had a strained relationship with DH (not his dad). He's cocky, bad tempered, constantly swearing, steals off us (money, cigarettes, alcohol etc).

Last night DS was in his room playing Xbox and talking loudly on his phone ffing and blinding. I first told him to be quiet at 11pm as I was going to bed. I then had to repeatedly shout and tell him off throughout the night. 2am DH gets pissed off and storms into his room and shouts at him to be quiet. DS was more or less laughing throughout.

DH was late for work this morning as a result of getting no sleep.

DS had his graduation today and has just come in and said "sorry about last night btw, can my late sleep?". I said No because of his behaviour last night. DH then starts on at him about his behaviour last night and telling him off. DS repeatedly argued that he didn't do what DH said he'd done. It got heated, they started shouting and then DS started squaring up to DH (who was sat down at the time). DH stood up and squared back up to him telling him to stop being ridiculous. DS pushes DH, it gets more heated and they start wrestling each other, DH pushes DS onto the sofa and pins him down, DS is shouting that he's a cunt and various other names, my eldest DS comes in at this point and tries to split them up. DH by this point has taken 3 punches to the face. When DH lets him up DS punches him again in the face. He has now done a runner with his mate whilst shouting CUNT down the driveway.

How the fuck do you deal with this?? This is not the first time DS has got violent btw, he's gone for DH numerous times and DS1.

DS1 has just let it slip that while we were away DS2 came in drunk, threw up in the living room and then punched DS1 who told him to clean it up whilst also threatening him with some random "mate" he's supposedly got in prison. So fed up and feel like giving up on him.

If you get the police involved thete it is likely that the lical Youth Offending Team will become involved. There us various strategies to try and stop this kind of behaviour. While I undetstand reluctance to criminalise there has to be action now that will not necessarily result in a criminal record.

• bloody typos. Hope you understood my post!

maryz

Totally get your posts. However for some teenage boys for the 'man of the house'actually 'squaring up' and defending by holding the arms etc of a wayward teenager can work. It's a case by case basis of course. I find the old dh remarkable in his restraint of his step son. He is to be admired.

My lads at this age were never as angry as this but dh did hold the T shirt of ds1 in a tight grip and basically reminded him he was not the boss and could not disrespect me as the mum.

It worked. But dh is dss real dad and that probably made it easier.

Lots of great advice here op but don't do nothing do something and above all dont despair not all teenagers go down you know most come up and mature. But don't don't ignore or enable him.

No one should be judging you btw but for the grace of God go we all.

I'm 100% supportive of OP's Husband...

Can you not sit down with your DS one on one, just you and him? No DH there or DS1, just you and DS2 and ask him why he feels the way he does? What does he think might be causing him to have such anger issues and what does he feel can help.
Tell him how much you love him but you feel backed into a corner by his behaviour.

Police and have him charged with assault. He has to be forced to take responsibility, if not then you're part of the problem.

I not suggesting modelling violence rather holding snd restraining. The dh cannot and should not have to put up with being punched and the ds can't be allowed to get away with this behaviour.

It's a risky strategy doing anything but doing nothing is far worse and potentially dangerous for all of them.

Of course talking things through is essential but that has to go hand I. Hand with strong and proper action where needed.

He's 16 not 13 and punching another man in the face repeatedly is not on.

If he had done this in the street he would be charged with assault. He needs a firm lesson.

This reminds me so much of a student I taught a while ago. Aggressive and had a hell of a temper. None of the female staff were comfortable being in the same room as him. His parents didn't want to challenge him. Recently, as an adult, he was jailed for manslaughter. He pushed his landlady down the stairs in a fit of anger, and killed her. We had all said that this was what would happen, but without the support of his parents, there was nothing we could do. Please, don't let this go. Making him upset/unhappy now, challenging him, may not be what you want to do, but the alternative could be far worse.

Im frightened of hurting him as ridiculous as it sounds.
It doesn't sound ridiculous, he's your son. But you need to think of the family not just him. Your poor DH, and he's not doing DS1 much good either is he.

He's already found it really difficult to find work, with a police record it would be near on impossible.
PPs have mentioned that as he's under 18 he won't get a record as such. No idea if that's correct, but perhaps worth having a chat with the police about what's happened and asking thier advice. Speaking to them doesn't mean having DS2 arrested.

the thought of him in foster care breaks my heart
Well, something has to happen, even if it's not that. You say you've tried everything and that's not worked so all that's happening is the cycle is continuing. Time to ask for help from experts before it escallates; he'll either attack someone and really hurt them, or he'll pick on the wrong person and get badly hurt or worse. The police would be my first port of call as they'll be used to stuff like this.

It sounds like so far every time he's behaved like this there have been no consequences. Is that the case OverTheHammer?

@OverTheHammer I am about 9 months down the road from a similar situation with my DS, 16.

Being stuck between DS, DH and other DC is so so heartbreaking and knowing where to start is incredibly hard, as you love everyone in this situation and do not want to sacrifice any of the respective relationships with each individual.

Apologies,in advance, if my post comes across as patronising at any point or a repeat of any PP but this is my take on it:

I can understand why PP's think calling the police is the right thing to do, as essentially assaulting someone is a criminal act... however he is still your child and children are not 'born bad' and as parents we must take responsibility for our children's behaviour especially when they are still minors.

I understand your DHs fury but with all due respect, he 'signed up' to help parent your DC or he should have married a woman with no children. Sorry if that sounds harsh - I know being a step parent can often seem like a thankless but your DH has to realise that squaring up to an already agitated 16 year old is unlikely to ever result in DS seeing the error of his ways.

In my experience, the situation will never be resolved in the heat of the moment and what is clear is that your DS does not seem to have a male role model who doesn't use physical force as a way to 'resolve' issues (This was the same with my DS). Your DH needs to part of the solution not part of the problem.

As @MissJC suggested, can you try talking to your DS again (just you two first)? As well as outlining what you find unacceptable about his behaviour remind him of any recent examples of his behaviour which shows he is a 'good person' and also give him the chance to voice what his frustrations are, as well as anything that is happening in the household that he would like to change.

Discuss his frustrations fully with him and never dismiss them totally out of hand, even if they seem irrational to you. I am not suggesting that you bow to his demands but if your DS can see your are willing to explore his perception of the situation you might have a better chance of a positive conversation and outcome.
(Eg I hear you feel that we are always on your back about playing the Xbox, but we are not asking you to stop playing it completely but just to understand how unfair it is to be woken at 2am in the morning when you need to wake up 4 hours later for work. Let's agree a cut off time, so that this is not an issue again and everyone knows where they stand. What time do you think is a reasonable time to turn off the Xbox at night...?)

Agree general do's and dont's - our children are never too old for boundary setting.

Give him the chance to hear your (and DH's) alternative view, in a calm manner, and agree what would be the best way to resolve issues in future when they occur instead of just telling him how wrong he is, in the heat of the moment. And underline that physical force on either side is a big no- no.
That way when unacceptable behaviour does occur, you can just refer to your conversation and remind him what was discussed and agreed.

Underneath that cocky, bad tempered young man is probably a scared little boy who just wants love and direction.
You are not a bad parent, each of our children have different needs and what works for one child does not necessarily work for the another. Children who cause the most problems and unpleasant circumstances are usually crying out for love and direction, in a different way.

I really wish you the best. xx

Makes you wonder what he (the DS) would have to do to be the bad guy.

Makes you wonder what he (the DS) would have to do to be the bad guy
Probably something like beat the shit out of his girlfriend (regularly trying to beat the shit out of his dad doesn't quite cut it it seems)

Aquathest I thought that was a really nice and helpful post in how to deal with children. They're not easy at all but finding the right method in how to parent that child so you get the best out of them is challenging but very rewarding. I had a difficult relationship with my daughter she felt I was giving to much attention to my other daughter. When I realised that was the problem I started giving her the attention she needed.

How would DS feel if DH walked? Would he feel victorious or would he feel bad about screwing up your marriage?

WhatALoad exactly. This all sounds horribly familiar. OP you have to stop babying him as living in a world without consequences is not helping him.

We were in a similar situation a while ago, A very violent teen and my dp who has been with us since ds was 5. Ds has adhd and aspergers but high functioning and has caused us absolute hell over the years, theft, violence, swearing, damaged property, underage sex, drugs the lot. He grew up with boundaries and he was manageable until he hit eleven and then he upped it, we went on parenting courses, read book, begged for help from social services who were uninterested until he put my dp in hospital at the age of 16, by squaring up to him over the fact he took his own daughters shopping even though he had been given an expensive gift the day before, ds pushed dp over a glass coffee table which shattering resulting in dp needing nearly 20 stitches in his arm, the paramedics called the police as my terrified daughters and sdaughters were present. Social services called me..No visit mind and told me they were making steps to take my 5 years old, 8 year old and 12 year old dds into care because I couldn't safeguard them, fuck that ds will leave before them, he ended living with his dad's mum for 2 months before she then kicked him out because he had drug dealers in the house at 3 am. He has threatened to stab his 2 year old sister at the time he makes constant threats to murder us all inn our sleep and im just wow at the posters saying oh a mum should always provide a home for the 16 year old, don't call the police etc, they don't have to live with the constant fear, the violence, the effect it has on others in the house

The op and others have a right to be safe in their own house, you can only put up with so much and it's fucked with my own mental health and my 14 year old dd1 is under camhs herself for ptsd. At what point do you say enough is enough?

Things are slightly better, he's out a lot of the theme at work or college and I spend what theme ime I can with hi, as does his bio dad but the damage is done

Apologies for typos my phone is a bastard

I'm a bit baffled by the posters blaming OP's DH and counselling against the police - conveniently ignoring the fact that her other son was also assaulted. OP has two children to worry about - is she supposed to stand by and watch one son beat the other? If OP's other child was female there would be a universal outcry telling her that she needed to protect her DD - but because the other child is male, he's just supposed to put up with being assaulted by his brother?

WhatALoadOfOldBollocks

I agree, and I will add that all the way through school when he was beating the crap out of other children, some posters would have blamed the school.

For some people there is always someone else to blame.

Boney its not the school who gets blamed its normally the person who brings them up. Teach your child how to be kind and show empathy when others are upset. I have 3 daughters and I hope they choose carefully when they get older.

Children are not born bad they are a product of their environment. I have to protect my children from other peoples dysfunctional behaviour. It's not their fault they haven't been taught how to behave or how to express themselves properly.

And don't waste your time thinking about social services or foster care. The chances of you getting a placement for him are approximately nil

Maryz I have to disagree with you there I'm afraid. As a foster carer I am often asked to look after young men in similiar situations, sometimes just for a few days while things settle, or to give some space for decisions to be made about what to do. Particularly during the summer or at Christmas for some reason. Anyway, in my county it is really quite common.Girls as well as boys. And I am usually asked once or twice a month, I agree to the placement about half the time, as it obviously depends on what other children I am caring for at that time also. Most go home straight afterwards, though sadly it happens again and becomes a bit of a pattern.

Good luck, OP. I feel for you so much as have several times been in similiar situations myself. Thinking of you.

If you get the police involved thete it is likely that the lical Youth Offending Team will become involved. There us various strategies to try and stop this kind of behaviour. While I undetstand reluctance to criminalise there has to be action now that will not necessarily result in a criminal record

You are absolutely right there, AnUnhappyTeen, In my 25 years as an adoptive parent and now foster carer this is now what almost always happens. The police and other authorities work very hard not to criminalise teenagers who act in this way.

However, and again this is my own experience, I have found this rarely works, and instead leaves the young person believing they can get away with everything, and they so often go on to commit other more serious crimes, and into adulthood. Ironically I have found that with the ones that ARE charged and taken through the courts and receive a punishment as a young offender, are more likely not to reoffend in adulthood, as they see the consequences of their actions. I would not have realised that things were this way had I not witnessed it myself time and time again. And because of this, for my own AND the young person's sake, I would report and press charges against my own child, in the belief that it would help them far more than second/third or fourth chances ever could.

Again, this is my own experience, the experience of others may differ.