DH and DS have just had a fight

[OverTheHammer]

Don't know what to think. DS(16) has always had a strained relationship with DH (not his dad). He's cocky, bad tempered, constantly swearing, steals off us (money, cigarettes, alcohol etc).

Last night DS was in his room playing Xbox and talking loudly on his phone ffing and blinding. I first told him to be quiet at 11pm as I was going to bed. I then had to repeatedly shout and tell him off throughout the night. 2am DH gets pissed off and storms into his room and shouts at him to be quiet. DS was more or less laughing throughout.

DH was late for work this morning as a result of getting no sleep.

DS had his graduation today and has just come in and said "sorry about last night btw, can my late sleep?". I said No because of his behaviour last night. DH then starts on at him about his behaviour last night and telling him off. DS repeatedly argued that he didn't do what DH said he'd done. It got heated, they started shouting and then DS started squaring up to DH (who was sat down at the time). DH stood up and squared back up to him telling him to stop being ridiculous. DS pushes DH, it gets more heated and they start wrestling each other, DH pushes DS onto the sofa and pins him down, DS is shouting that he's a cunt and various other names, my eldest DS comes in at this point and tries to split them up. DH by this point has taken 3 punches to the face. When DH lets him up DS punches him again in the face. He has now done a runner with his mate whilst shouting CUNT down the driveway.

How the fuck do you deal with this?? This is not the first time DS has got violent btw, he's gone for DH numerous times and DS1.

DS1 has just let it slip that while we were away DS2 came in drunk, threw up in the living room and then punched DS1 who told him to clean it up whilst also threatening him with some random "mate" he's supposedly got in prison. So fed up and feel like giving up on him.

Would the police help you access an anger management course ? Maybe that would make a difference?

Nothing to add but sympathy and .

We have had similar problems with one of our DS. Many incidents just like the one you have described, but without it quite becoming a fight - neither DH or myself have ever hit back. Thankfully after nearly 5 years of this, he will be leaving home in a couple of month's time at the age of 21. I still hold out the hope that once he is no longer living at home, and he grows up (he is young for his age and lacks confidence doing really basic things) we can rebuild some sort of relationship in the future.

In our case his violence & aggression has been targeted at me, and dh is even more conflict avoidant than I am. We have never called the police, as it has never escalated to the point we have felt it would be justifiable (despite theft, assault, abuse, threatening behaviour, throwing furniture). I always thought it would only antagonise the situation further, and lead to an irretrievable breakdown of any relationship we do have, not to mention the possible effect of a police record on his future. I think a police record at the age of 16 would still show up on enhanced background checks. DS has always strongly resisted any attempt to refer him to GP or MH services, seeing any attempt to identify any mental health or behavioural issues as a personal slur. He has also resisted moving out either to live with relatives or independently (at 18 he could easily have afforded to get his own place) - until now when he has accepted a place at uni on the other side of the country.

The similarities with your DS are poor anger management (there is a family history of this on my side of the family, but I don't think DS has ever witnessed this), extensive time playing on violent online roleplay games, and attitude problems at school and college.

The difference is that I have never yet seen or heard of my DS taking out his anger on anyone outside myself and DH (apart from swearing under his breath at teachers at school and college). He has quit several part time jobs by walking out because he doesn't like being told what to do/ criticised. But he has always been able to find a new job when he is desperate enough for money.

On a separate note, my mother threw out my brother when he was 16 in a fit of anger. It was a different age so my brother immediately got a flat and benefits all paid for. But my parents spent the next few years constantly worrying about him (drugs, alcohol, dodgy friends), but he grew out of it, caught up on education and training and he's fine now.

HorridHenryrule, you are right about who gets the blame.

I took full responsibility for trying to understand and correct DS behaviour in a way that I hoped would not send him down the same path as his useless biological parent.

No one (OP, OPs DH, and either DS) should ever have to deal with attempted or actual violence and I don't for one minute condone OPs DS2 behaviour or place the blame at OPs DHs feet. My point regarding OPs DH was that his current interaction feeds into her DS2's thinking that you can solve your issues with threats/ violence and that really doesn't help anyone.

The root cause of DS2's behaviour needs to be identified and addressed not just the behaviour that happens as a result of his feelings.

I completely agree with posters who say OPs DS2 needs to take responsibility for his actions but doesn't a parent taking responsibility for helping to identify why their DC might be acting in such a way go hand in hand?

Aggressive behaviour is learned behaviour, as is taking responsibility for your actions.

OPs DS2 will not disappear into another universe if she calls the police or social services or throws him out to extended family to 'deal' with instead. Surely the problem then just becomes someone else/ society's problem?

I agreed with Maryz's view on SS but it was really interesting to hear from bigmac4me that although temporary placements do happen often, sadly the majority do not work as it often just becomes a pattern for the child. That is in no way SS/ Foster Carers fault but probably the child's feelings of resentment adding to whatever negative feelings already existed before such a placement.

OP DS2 needs a solution that takes the confrontation out of the situation immediately and forces him to recognise how destructive his behaviour is.
Often we class the words exchanged in the heat of the moment as addressing/speaking to our children about their bad behaviour. But in my experience it is having the continued conversations before situations occur that has been the biggest help for DS to understand and influence his decisions/actions.

OP - your DS needs to hear that you love him but dislike some of his behaviour/ decisions. Deciding to talk to him to try and find out what is causing his behaviour is not condoning his actions or preventing him from taking responsibility for those actions.
Quite the opposite, I think. Part of taking responsibility for ones actions means understanding why you behaved in that way so you can take steps to prevent it happening again. He is still quite young and may not even really understand himself why he is so angry without a calm constructive conversation.

As identified by Fairyflaps, I found low confidence to be one of the main sources of frustration that had been left unaddressed and was then was also able to talk to DS about how to improve his confidence.
Only through calm communication are you likely to reach a breakthrough.

Up until now, your DS2s way of dealing with his frustration is to lash out. When talking to him about this, include DH, addressing underlying feelings and alternative ways of dealing with anger.

What possible benefit can be achieved by labelling DS2 the bad guy?
A child who feels negatively about themselves will rarely project positivity to those around them, especially those closest.

Rather than telling him he is bad, refer to the bad decisions he is currently making and how he can and must change those into positive decisions.
Even those deemed 'good people' have done bad things or made bad decisions in their past.

Apologies for the long ramble. I certainly do not have all the answers but hope that anything in any of the posts on here can help you turn this situation around for everyone in your household. You all deserve to feel loved and safe within your family unit.