DH and DS have just had a fight

[OverTheHammer]

Don't know what to think. DS(16) has always had a strained relationship with DH (not his dad). He's cocky, bad tempered, constantly swearing, steals off us (money, cigarettes, alcohol etc).

Last night DS was in his room playing Xbox and talking loudly on his phone ffing and blinding. I first told him to be quiet at 11pm as I was going to bed. I then had to repeatedly shout and tell him off throughout the night. 2am DH gets pissed off and storms into his room and shouts at him to be quiet. DS was more or less laughing throughout.

DH was late for work this morning as a result of getting no sleep.

DS had his graduation today and has just come in and said "sorry about last night btw, can my late sleep?". I said No because of his behaviour last night. DH then starts on at him about his behaviour last night and telling him off. DS repeatedly argued that he didn't do what DH said he'd done. It got heated, they started shouting and then DS started squaring up to DH (who was sat down at the time). DH stood up and squared back up to him telling him to stop being ridiculous. DS pushes DH, it gets more heated and they start wrestling each other, DH pushes DS onto the sofa and pins him down, DS is shouting that he's a cunt and various other names, my eldest DS comes in at this point and tries to split them up. DH by this point has taken 3 punches to the face. When DH lets him up DS punches him again in the face. He has now done a runner with his mate whilst shouting CUNT down the driveway.

How the fuck do you deal with this?? This is not the first time DS has got violent btw, he's gone for DH numerous times and DS1.

DS1 has just let it slip that while we were away DS2 came in drunk, threw up in the living room and then punched DS1 who told him to clean it up whilst also threatening him with some random "mate" he's supposedly got in prison. So fed up and feel like giving up on him.

Thanks for all the replies.

It's DS2 that is violent. My eldest son (18) is a lovely, popular and hard working man with a steady girlfriend, a-levels and a job. Now the thing is, their dad also has a temper and has been in numerous fights over the years. I remember one time we were walking through town, ex was carrying some shopping and a group of lads said something as they walked past. Ex dropped the shopping on the floor and pushed one of the lads against the wall and began screaming and threatening in his face. The lad was terrified. Onlookers were shocked. I was mortified. This was 16 years ago, we were in our early 20s.

A more recent episode involved ex and his girlfriend walking around a shop with the DSs and someone looked at him funny - ex went ballistic and starting threatening this guy and pushing him around. The girlfriend and DS1 were mortified. DS2 thought it was hilarious.

They took the DSs camping a few years back. An argument between ex and girlfriend started up and ex threw a pan of sausages across the field and into a stream. DS1 never went away with them again after that. So many examples.

Now, why I'm mentioning these things is because BOTH boys have inherited their dad's temper only DS1 has control over his, as well as an urge not to look like a moron in front of other people however, in the past when DS2 has attacked him, DS1 on occasion has blown up and kicked the shit out of him. He's also 6ft but much stronger and stockier than his brother. A recent incident saw them brawling on the driveway - DH had to split them up and got punched then too.

DS1 will never start a fight, that's the difference and mostly, he won't retaliate either but when pushed, he will blow.

I've not seen DS2 today yet, he came home about 11pm last night, had a cigerette and then started blasting music from his room. I went in, told him to turn it off and he did.

I don't know what to do. I wouldn't blame DH if he walked. I would have walked years ago.

Don't react when he's trying to pick a fight, especially your dh. Hard as it is, your dh is the adult here and needs to walk away

Which then teaches DS that whenever he doesn't want to hear what's being said to him all he has to do to stop that discussion is get aggressive.

Well quite ignoring and not retaliating could work with a 7 year old but a 16 year old man cannot be allowed to punch anyone and have no concequences or where will that lead?

Too late much too late to ignore now

I can not believe people are actually blaming the DH for this.

I can, certain posters will try to blame the adult male for everything possible.

My advice and I have raised 4 teenagers who were by no means angels, my advice I'd call the police and show your ds 2 you mean business and he cannot get control of you all or your house by being violent and intimidating you all.

He probably hopes your dh will walk as then he will have no opposition.

He needs concequences and to learn that he cannot go through life like that.

I agree with Givepeas that this is a DV issue. Child on parent (stepparent in this case) is a lot more common than people realise.

Legal or not, I'd chuck the lad out. no-one should have to stay in a home with someone who's violent towards them. Tell children's services that you're not having him back because of his violence and let them sort it out.

And I'd call the police, too.

I think your husband showed enormous restraint in the face of extreme provocation. Definitely not his fault.

I'd call the police too. It needs sorting before it destroys the family.

Your DS needs to feel the consequences of his actions and rapidly. He, of course, needs further help and support as previously suggested but that takes time.

I hope you get this resolved soon.

If your son has calm times and is capable of discussing issues at all then I would take an opportunity to talk to him, just the two of you. See if he will acknowledge at all any recognition that his behaviour is wrong and if so tell him that together you need to change things or his future will be pretty bleak. Represent to him how it could go. Not threats but just pointing out the probable course his life would take. Say you will help him and that from now on the whole family must try and work together to change the dynamic. Maybe he can suggest something himself that might help.

OP What do you think about calling the police? I think its your only option now. You have 2 years left to help your son and after that he will be an adult and any arrest records will be permanent.

For your/husbands/DS1 sakes, call the police.
For DS1 sake, call the police.

Im frightened of hurting him as ridiculous as it sounds. He's already found it really difficult to find work, with a police record it would be near on impossible. I couldn't throw him out, where would he go? I can't make him homeless and the thought of him in foster care breaks my heart. He's very immature for his age, apart from his height he looks younger than his age too. He'd be heart broken at being placed in foster care and despite everything, I just couldn't do it to him.

I've messaged his dad this morning and have asked if he can stay there until September. I know he'll refuse.

Also, despite everything DS1 is actually very protective over him. Even after fight-gate last night when DS2 left the house he called DS1 and asked if he could borrow his bank card to get some food and DS1 ran straight out with it to make sure he had something to eat. DS1 is torn between us and his loyalty to his brother. Unfortunately that loyalty does not stretch both ways and DS2 would never put himself out for DS1.

Lots of advice here for the OP to call the police. Actually this puts a whole load of pressure on her. OP's DH is the victim of the assault. He would have to want to get the police involved and to make the complaint of assault. Also, don't think for one minute that involving the police will enable the boy and family to access the help they clearly need from SS or Cahms. The police will alert SS but how involved other agencies get will probably depend on services in your area.
If DH makes a complaint of assault the OP will be a witness to that assault and might have to testify against her son. What an awful situation to be in....I really feel for you. I hope that you can get some help somewhere as suggested by PPs.
Also, if another situation occurs and you are concerned that someone will be hurt you can always call the police at the time to deal with the volatile incident. A couple of coppers turning up on a blue light to sort out a fight might give your DS the scare that he needs.
Good luck.

"DS1 will never start a fight, that's the difference and mostly, he won't retaliate either but when pushed, he will blow."

Isnt that the case with most people? I'm not sure saying "its his dads temper thats all, they both have it" is necessarily true when DS1 doesnt seem to have any issues controlling it unless hes pushed to defend himself.

Well if your son's dad refuses, negotiate something else that works.
What about he has him while you and DH go on holiday, if that is possible to arrange, even just a night away.
Can you take DS to GP for referral for assessment for his emotional regulation difficulties and anger and violence issues to assess for ADHD/Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome/aspergers. It is difficult as many teens will refuse, but have to keep trying

In that case, DH need to leave for his own protection both physical and legal.

Don't despair op he is just 16 and there are hundreds of kids who act similar but do mature.

Calling the police and getting outside agencies involved isn't abandoning him, quite the opposite, it may help him to realise he can't act like a spoilt kid and be violent at his age.

Your ds 1 sounds lovely, mine would act just like yours with his younger brother too and believe me they had some physical fights as teenagers.

What does your dh think is best to do?

Thing is you can't just act like it's not happened or allow him to get away with it. It's not fair on the lad. He needs to learn now and not wait until he's too late.

His real dad sounds a twat and likejly to make him worse by his example.

Do you think your son is trying to impress his real dad by acting like him??

I think that it's unfair to say that ds1 has his dad's anger issues. He sounds like a wonderful young man despite having to live with a violent younger brother.

Do you not fear for ds1 and dh's safety?
Do you not fear that doing nothing is just passing on the problem to ds2's future partners, children, flat mates etc?

My teen ds has problems (milder than your son) and I find it hard to balance things. As family we can forgive his bad behaviour more easily but he'll probably go to uni in a couple of years so needs to be able to live with other people peacefully. I'm a single parent so feel that my options are limited but the older he gets the harder it will to change things. Personally I would be involving police for the safety of the rest of the family. If it were once I'd probably be too soft to get police but this is a pattern now.

But you're not helping him. You're all teaching him that there are no consequences to his actions. Rushing out with a bank card so he could buy food? He's 16. He won't starve if he doesn't eat for one evening.

He knows you won't call the police. You won't kick him out. You're making it as easy as possible for him to abuse him.

In years to come he will have a girlfriend / wife. The first time she has a black eye remember this moment as the moment you allowed that to happen.

Totally agree crazed op doing nothing and minimising isn't helping your sons.

Could there be a bit of a mental health issue underlying here-especially as you said his Father behaved similarly? Sounds a bit personality disorder-ish perhaps?
If you can speak to him calmly could you say that you are concerned about him as his behaviour in attacking your dh was unacceptable and too far-and that you want to get him some help...because you want to find a solution for you all. He can choose not to engage with that but then he is making that choice I guess.
Abandoning him and kicking him out without offering one last time to assist wouldn't help him (or you I suspect as you would feel crushed with guilt forever-he's still your son no matter what he does), but a serious conversation with him about this being the last straw and that he needs to start engaging with you and agencies that can help him, or else come up with a solution himself is needed.

Calling the police might seem harsh, and I am sure you are concerned he might get a record. But actually if you don't he will do it again, and he will get one. And why not? he has just learnt he is getting away with it. He might think you are too scared to do anything about it. He could setting himself for a lifetime of abusing. In the meantime, this is your opportunity to tackle this as he has gone too far. Calling the police might be the wake up call he needs to start thinking that he has overstepped the mark, because right now he does not think he has.
Spending some time apart (I don't know how this can be achieved) might also be the best option for all involved.

Doing nothing is not an option. By doing nothing, nothing will change. Your DS will continue down the wrong path, the further down he gets the harder it will be to change course. The time for action is now. Yes it would be heartbreaking to make him leave or to see him go through anything.

It would also be heartbreaking when he gets sent to prison/DD1 leaves the home due to his/DH leaves the home due to this. It would be heartbreaking when he is a middle aged man who has spent his adult life in and out of prison, with no job and no home. The voice of experience.

There are no easy answers this I know, but something has to change. Boundaries need to be set with the consequences made clear. Then you need to follow through. It may seem you are being mean or harsh but its for his own good and for the good of the other family members.

A good place to start IMO would be anymore violence in the house you will no longer be able to live here.

OP you are letting DS2 behave as he wishes and from what you've written, giving no consequences. The first paragraph in your latest post is worrying, and if you've voiced that to your DH - given what you've said in your OP and subsequently about DS's behaviour - then I wouldn't be surprised if DH isn't already making plans to leave. You've made it clear that your DS is your first priority, over the safety and wellbeing of both DH and DS1.

Yes he's your son, yes it's hard to turn him away, maybe you feel guilty because you got together with your aggressive ex and had children with him who (at least DS2) inherited his temper. But you also have a responsibility to the other people in your family.

I would kick the little shit out to be honest. He is 16 not 6. Tell him to go and live with his dad. You will always have problems with this kid. Sometimes you just have to accept it and let him get on with it. One day he will lash out at the wrong person and find himself on the receiving end of a hiding. I've seen plenty of this over the years. If I was your DH I would be leaving if he didn't move out.