DH and DS have just had a fight

[OverTheHammer]

Don't know what to think. DS(16) has always had a strained relationship with DH (not his dad). He's cocky, bad tempered, constantly swearing, steals off us (money, cigarettes, alcohol etc).

Last night DS was in his room playing Xbox and talking loudly on his phone ffing and blinding. I first told him to be quiet at 11pm as I was going to bed. I then had to repeatedly shout and tell him off throughout the night. 2am DH gets pissed off and storms into his room and shouts at him to be quiet. DS was more or less laughing throughout.

DH was late for work this morning as a result of getting no sleep.

DS had his graduation today and has just come in and said "sorry about last night btw, can my late sleep?". I said No because of his behaviour last night. DH then starts on at him about his behaviour last night and telling him off. DS repeatedly argued that he didn't do what DH said he'd done. It got heated, they started shouting and then DS started squaring up to DH (who was sat down at the time). DH stood up and squared back up to him telling him to stop being ridiculous. DS pushes DH, it gets more heated and they start wrestling each other, DH pushes DS onto the sofa and pins him down, DS is shouting that he's a cunt and various other names, my eldest DS comes in at this point and tries to split them up. DH by this point has taken 3 punches to the face. When DH lets him up DS punches him again in the face. He has now done a runner with his mate whilst shouting CUNT down the driveway.

How the fuck do you deal with this?? This is not the first time DS has got violent btw, he's gone for DH numerous times and DS1.

DS1 has just let it slip that while we were away DS2 came in drunk, threw up in the living room and then punched DS1 who told him to clean it up whilst also threatening him with some random "mate" he's supposedly got in prison. So fed up and feel like giving up on him.

I would be concerned that both your DH and your other DS will leave - I hope you find a solution.

I suspect he "squared up" in the words of the OP to try and get this very angry kid, who has gone for him before, and has hit his brother, to back off. I suspect a lot of people would. Because "would you mind not hitting me" isn't going to cut it, quite frankly. Maybe he just snapped? How many wouldn't under all that provocation?

Does the child have issues? Most definitely. Is the DH actually to BLAME for any of this? Absolutely not.

While I can accept you acknowledging the child needs serious help, to continually harp on about what the DH did under extremely trying not to say dangerous situation and lay so much at his door is quite honestly ridiculous.

16 is not a child. He may not legally be an adult but he is physically a man and should emotionally be moving towards becoming an adult.

I don't know what the answer is OP, it sounds awful and is domestic violence. Is there no way that he can go and live with his Dad for a while (who surely has equal responsibility to you?)

Am missing how being "cocky, bad tempered, swearing and stealing" are red flags for ASD

Finally, they may not be typical red flags for ASD, but for many parents this behaviour becomes a normal part of life.
Some autistic children will never swear, because it's against the rules, but this doesn't mean that no autistic child will swear. Some will never be violent.
The OP's posts suggest a pattern that is familiar to PDA, and it may be helpful to her to be told that. It might not be, but I have a feeling that advice to approach things differently may be more successful than the calls to kick him out and take away his Xbox etc.
When we were at a stage with ds when we knew some really awful behaviour was going on, and normal parenting wasn't doing anything at all, certain posters mentioning ASD and specifically PDA were the most helpful because it meant we could look into it and use strategies that actually worked and calmed the situation down.

Must be lovely for his father to have the option to just "refuse to have him"

Your DS sounds like he gets hyperfocused on xbox games, and this can be a trait of ADD Although someone with ADD has difficulty with focus, they may become become hyperfocused on video games/other tasks. Although they may seem hyperfocused they still have difficulty remaining focused, hence may restart the game more than other kids, and take longer to win the game. They may have difficulty focusing on the game while hearing background talking, for example.

Yes i am very aware of all that cloud..but its a big leap

Worth trying every option though to help.

If your son has ADD or ASD or a a bit of both, which some do have, this is not anyone's fault, it is a neurological issue.

Perhaps after things have calmed down your DS realises he has hurt people and feels crap.

This is exhausting for you as a parent Op, and your son will need to work hard to change (whatever the cause of his violent behaviour). But you can get through this together with your son, and you can also focus on his good traits, while also working to change the anger and violence issues.

Remove the x-box and his phone . He doesn't need them to survive , they are non essential luxuries .

What about hiding xbox and having xbox as a reward
(but him having add/asd does not mean he is not smart, so he may easily find the hiding spot, if its not a good one!)

It's not such a big leap considering the op has already said that she suspected ASD/ADD.

Children with PDA (which is under the ASD umbrella) often fly under the radar and don't appear to be typically autistic. It's not a condition that is easily recognised by many professionals, which leads to it being considered rare. There's a taboo about having a violent child, and it's not something you can easily talk about to others, because they assume the behaviour is purely down to parenting.
Even if it's not PDA, it certainly looks like something neurological is going on.

This idea of removing something and reinstating it as a "reward" is not the best idea with a man sized teen brimming with anger and severely lacking in emotional regulation in the same way that it might work with a 10 year old.

That is true Pick , although perhaps a friends method of leaving them in a bucket of water on the front door step for her son to find on his return might be deemed a bit too mean .

If DS continues to get away with this as a method of conflict resolution he will use it elsewhere and either end up in court or hospital. Try to get the police involved, as an exercise in prevention, to show him the potential consequences of his actions. As a 6' tall teenager he'll be very capable of inflicting serious damage if he goes too far.

I can not believe people are actually blaming the DH for this.

He sounds like my brother, maybe a less extreme version though.

My brother had behavioural issues growing up, the school and SS just said it was down to parenting. When a six year old boy chucks himself out of a window for 'fun' or wacks a brick against his sister's head, that isn't down to just parenting.Some of the stuff my brother did, was not normal behaviour. There is one incident that I can't write on here as it would very specific and recognisable but he did something even more dangerous then chucking himself out of a window just so he could feel what it was like. Don't get me wrong we did have a dysfunctional childhood, and my dad was abusive but this wasn't the main reason for his behaviour. There is something neurologically wrong with my brother.

He grew up and his behaviour got worse, then he began using drugs and that escalated his behaviour x100. He had multiple chances where people have gone all out trying to get him help but everything just kept getting worse and worse. He's now an abuser, and beats up his girlfriends and he's too far gone.

You could try the police, they may be able to charge him and he may get sent to young offenders but he will probably won't be but if he does, often it can make it worse and can add an extra layer of bravado. Phoning the police may make SS listen but if they can try and palm off their responsibilities, they will.

Your son is not my brother and it doesn't mean he will go down the same route, but if you have noticed that something hasn't quite right since he was child then I would get as much medical help as you can. It will be bloody hard to get it, but if you can it might at least give you a chance.

It's ok for other posters to be all cuddly and thinking he's just misunderstood, and he may be, but you know your child and if you think he's a danger to himself, you and DS1 then it's probably because he is. You need to protect yourself and DS1, you can't help your son if you're seriously hurt or dead - and all it takes is one punch in the wrong place to kill someone.

The fact is your son is a danger. To himself, if he takes his anger issues outside of the house either his recipient won't love him and wont hold back or he'll really harm someone and deservedly end up in jail.

He's a danger to his brother who he threatens and punches.

A danger to your husband as the above.

If your husband and ds leave what do you think would happen. As thumb says, you will be he punching bag. You only aren't now because they are in the way.

Speak to a professional like women's aid. They are a dv specialists and this is dv, just through your child.

You have to decide where you draw the line too in regards to calling he police. If you come home and ds2 is lying unconscious because ds1 has beaten him, then would you take the step? What if it was your husband? Or you? Personally I'd do it now, it might push for your son to get the support he needs. At the least it protects your family

It is not about blame DH is not to blame. He and Op has the right to report to police the violence and especially so does the other younger son . And the Op's son has the right to support from family for what may be a neurological issue. ie difficulties with emotional regulation and executive functioning Maybe in future these teens will have the ADD/ASD/PDA diagnosed earlier and supports in place so parents don't deal with so much horrible situations without support to de-escalate the teen's anxiety/frustration so violence happens less. Currently parents are often quite alone with learning how to understand and support their children with high functioning ADD/ASD/PDA

Oh op how bloody awful for you.

Of course you can't take privileges off him he's 16 not 6. You managed to raise a nice lad in ds 1 so it's not your parenting love some teenagers have bloody awful teenage years and most mature with age although not all.

It seems to me he is at a crossroads of manhood and up to now he's got away with punching both his brother and his step dad. I have to say your dh has marvellous self control as my own dh wouldn't have put up with being punched by our lads who he adores.

Anyway it's time that higd ds2 needs to understand his actions have concequencss. Go to the police with your dh and press charges for assault. Get him arrested. That way he knows you mean business and obviously refuse to have him home. Is there another family member who could have him for a time? If not tell his dad he is going to him end of story.

A sharp shock may work. Trouble is it may go on his record but you could discuss this with the police?

Good luck op. Time to support your dh here.

Hi op, please ignore the 'kick him out' 'call the police' advice. That's bullocks. Post in teenagers where you will get proper advice, I'm still work right now so can't post much, but have lots if experience of this, not my own dc but very close family and I can truly say it's likely you will lose him forever following most of the advice given on here. Good luck .

But Maryz moving him back isn't protecting her other son is it? He deserves to be safe in his house too.

Nellys respectfully lots of us have raised teenagers too and have teenagers in the family and calling the police to get involved can actually be the best most constructive way forward. Just because it didn't work on your case doesn't make it bollocks.

The op has a responsibility to both her sons one of who has previously Punched the other.