DH and DS have just had a fight

[OverTheHammer]

Don't know what to think. DS(16) has always had a strained relationship with DH (not his dad). He's cocky, bad tempered, constantly swearing, steals off us (money, cigarettes, alcohol etc).

Last night DS was in his room playing Xbox and talking loudly on his phone ffing and blinding. I first told him to be quiet at 11pm as I was going to bed. I then had to repeatedly shout and tell him off throughout the night. 2am DH gets pissed off and storms into his room and shouts at him to be quiet. DS was more or less laughing throughout.

DH was late for work this morning as a result of getting no sleep.

DS had his graduation today and has just come in and said "sorry about last night btw, can my late sleep?". I said No because of his behaviour last night. DH then starts on at him about his behaviour last night and telling him off. DS repeatedly argued that he didn't do what DH said he'd done. It got heated, they started shouting and then DS started squaring up to DH (who was sat down at the time). DH stood up and squared back up to him telling him to stop being ridiculous. DS pushes DH, it gets more heated and they start wrestling each other, DH pushes DS onto the sofa and pins him down, DS is shouting that he's a cunt and various other names, my eldest DS comes in at this point and tries to split them up. DH by this point has taken 3 punches to the face. When DH lets him up DS punches him again in the face. He has now done a runner with his mate whilst shouting CUNT down the driveway.

How the fuck do you deal with this?? This is not the first time DS has got violent btw, he's gone for DH numerous times and DS1.

DS1 has just let it slip that while we were away DS2 came in drunk, threw up in the living room and then punched DS1 who told him to clean it up whilst also threatening him with some random "mate" he's supposedly got in prison. So fed up and feel like giving up on him.

The OP said that the son pushed DH first, and that DS has a history of violence towards DH and his sibling.

I spent 10 years trying to help my son. He's now in prison. 2 beatings in 6 months.

Can you afford a private NVR therapist? I'm trained in it and it specifically targets this type of behaviour and is very effective.
It's normally around 35 pounds per hour over a ten week period.
Google for local specialists.

I'm pasting this in case you didn't see it.

Are some people being deliberately thick?

The boy needs his violence and anger sorted out or he will turn into exactly the sort of person who beats up his partner or rules the roost through fear.

From the OP

This is not the first time DS has got violent btw, he's gone for DH numerous times and DS1.

DS1 has just let it slip that while we were away DS2 came in drunk, threw up in the living room and then punched DS1 who told him to clean it up whilst also threatening him with some random "mate" he's supposedly got in prison. So fed up and feel like giving up on him.

Your DH was incredibly restrained! Tell your DS to find a mate to live with or another family member

I wonder if the people saying he's a child and needs help would be saying that if Ops son beat their child up on the street.

But wait he's not doing That, he's attacking people he knows won't attack back. I think DH shown restraint by not hitting him back.

I would definitely get the police involved, he's acting like a little thug and seems like he's been allowed to get away with it for a long time with no repercussions.

KungFu - we work very hard with my son to try to prevent that sort of thing happening. So far he's "only" attacked me and dh, who of course won't attack back. Knowing why he does it is most of the battle. The op has said that she suspected something going (ASD or ADD) on since primary school, yet they were fobbed off and here he is.
He does need help, but the sort of help that will hopefully calm him down and stop him beating up family members.
I would also get the police involved, but I have a very different view about why this is happening.

Your ds is a child and your dh is an adult. Your ds clearly has difficulties and what you've been doing isn't working, so doing more of it isn't going to work any better. You have to try a new approach. Your dh (as an adult) has to walk away and not engage when ds is volatile. It obviously doesn't help and it just becomes a horrible spiral of increasing tension.

Your ds sounds incredibly anxious to me and that's almost certainly the root of his behaviour. Would you treat him differently if you knew there was a reason for his behaviour (e.g. autism)? If so, start treating him differently now, help him learn to be less angry, he won't learn by people being angry with him. Your dh could really help here by modelling calm non-reactive behaviour even when heavily provoked.

cloud sometimes people don't want the help. He's refused to get help. Only other way too learn is the hard way. He can't run through life thinking it's acceptable. He obviously chooses when to control his temper, because he hasn't attacked somebody on the street because he knows they would hit back.

I wouldn't call the police but that's just me. Think about the possibility of a criminal record before you do

Don't report him to the police op. If he gets a record it will be very difficult for him to get a job as he will be labelled with it. Just take a look at what is wrong and forgive him

Just out of curiosity, is this the advice you'd give your teenage DD, if she came home having been punched three times in the face by her teenage boyfriend? "Just forgive him, don't call the Police- think of his future..."

Allowing violence to go unresponded to and unpunished means he will never learn the severity of his actions.

And we wonder why women end up the primary victims of DV.

The problem is though that punishment is a really crap way of changing behaviour. What stops me punching someone when they've really pissed me off or hurt me isn't the worry about punishment, it's that I have the inner control and cognitive ability to behave more sensibly. The urge might be to lash out but I don't.

Having worked in the criminal justice system for a very long time (recently left) I know that punishment doesn't work. There are too many people who have never learned or been taught how to manage their own emotions and temper, have never developed any internal controls, and are totally reliant on external controls like police and prison.

KungFu, losing it to family only does not indicate he is choosing when to control his temper. Family are safe, you can be yourself with family. That's not exactly comforting for the op right now though, but it's very common for this to happen.
He may be refusing help, and I imagine any involvement previously has taught him that it doesn't help, because everyone usually goes down the punishment route, but this doesn't mean his parents can't try a different approach (collaboration, flexibility etc) to give him the space to learn different and more appropriate reactions. It's not easy, but I'm sure it's a damn sight better for all involved than giving up on him and not trying anything.

That is not a strange post, it is the fucking law in the UK.

Not in Scotland, I don't think. And we don't know which part of the UK the OP is in.

Another vote for the police. I'd get him out of my house and not have him back. He's dangerous and it's escalating.

I think you should call the police.
And I think SS can do something actually, when your child is attacking other members of your family.
I know someone whose daughter went this way and she was taken into care by SS for everyone's protection. Not always a good plan long run, as they then take over making decisions that aren't always ideal, but it saved the situation from becoming more toxic and dangerous at the time.

Your DH isn't going to stand for much more, by the sound of it. And if he leaves, it's likely that your DS2 will be very cocky about having got rid of him. Your DS1 is likely to leave home soon too if his brother carries on this way - and then it will be just you and him. Do you think he will manage to restrain himself if you cross him then, and you're the only person around to hit? If not, then you're going to be in trouble. :(

think Polter and Cloud nailed it- your son needs to develop inner control of his anger. He goes from zero to exploding with anger and violence, and Op has suspected long time that it is due to high functioning aspergers/ADD.

kungfupanda is also right that commonly teens refuse support, however this does not mean he does not need the help.

If he could agree to see a psychiatrist/Dr re underlying cause of his difficulty with emotional regulation and serious domestic violence issue he would really benefit Does he have other issues with executive functioning, such as difficulty starting and completing projects/school work/chores, difficulty focusing for long periods in school?

In your DH's shoes I'd leave. It's intolerable to live like that and I'm sorry, this is not one isolated incident and any criticism of the DH I think is unwarranted. Most of us have never been in REPEATED situations of this kind and while legally this kid is a kid of 16, he's got repeated form, he's 6ft tall and most of us know 16 year olds are far from being children these days.

It'll be the OP next on the receiving end, unquestionably. Her other son has already been on the end of this violence.

I also agree that next time this happens calling the police is the right thing to do, as the violence has gone too far. You can tell your son, you want to support him but the violence has to stop.

No, never mind next time, it has to happen THIS time. It's already a repeating situation.

To be punched repeatedly in the face and not punch back is real restraint - not sure I wouldn't do anything to protect myself if I was under attack from someone. If I was your DH I'd leave for my own safety. I suspect in that case your DS1 and you, will be the next punching bags.

Your son has anger issues which is the root of the problem and yes, he needs help. Go to your GP and find out what sort of help is available now before one of you ends up in hospital.

Squaring up to a 16 year old is not showing restraint.

Squaring up to a 16 year old is not showing restraint.

Not booting him to kingdom come when you've just taken 3 punches to the face certainly is.