To be infuriated by this (school related!)

[ChippaChoc]

I am just about to send an email out to my DCs class to invite them to an event (the parents) via 'classlist'. This is an event for all parents (and DCs). Classlist is the way that parents and the PTA are supposed to communicate about any events, parties, social stuff outside of the normal school day but is also used most days to remind parents about things happening In the classroom too (e.g. Forest school days, sports day) which kids need kit etc for.

There's 30 parents on the list, not one is a father / male. I can't believe that still in 2017 when most of the parents at my DCs school work, plenty of them full time, it's only Mums that are on the school comms list. It has massively annoyed me. I know it won't change anything, but it just feels we are so far away from an equal load in terms of parental responsibility I can't see it will ever change. The class list sign up went out to all parents earlier this year (there's approximately 54 emails on that list, mums and dads) and low and behold only the Mums have signed up to receive communications regarding event / parties / anything outside of the formal school comms. I wasn't involved in that sign up admin process.

Off to hassle my DH about why he isn't on it now (I thought he was!)

'Re the pp who's dh volunteered and she got asked, that's just schools, they cock contact things up all the time. My dcs contact no. is Grandad. 9 times out of ten they ring me when I'm at work, its no drama though slightly irritating.'

The point is that the school usually defaults to ringing the mum, because the assumption is always that the mum is the one who will deal with it.

If women take on more of the burden of dealing with children, that means that they won't have the same opportunity as men to do well in the workplace.

true, but in many cases it was taking time off to give birth. Until you find a way for men to pop babies seriously please don't I can't see how realistic so called equality would work. If you decide to have kids, you accept the consequences, otherwise it would be ridiculously unfair on women who chose not to have kids for a start.

I think men love their children through the mother. Women don't have children with men thinking 'oh, they won't love them but it's ok, as I will.'

But for the most part left to their sole devices men are shit parents.

Our school use an app and anyone can sign up to it so most families have both parents plus a grandparent or two (lots of grandparents do school runs here) signed up to it.

'true, but in many cases it was taking time off to give birth. Until you find a way for men to pop babies seriously please don't I can't see how realistic so called equality would work. If you decide to have kids, you accept the consequences, otherwise it would be ridiculously unfair on women who chose not to have kids for a start.'

Yes, women have time off to give birth. That's as it should be - it's unavoidable and necessary. But it's not necessary for the woman to then be in charge of everything to do with the child for the rest of their childhood. Men are perfectly capable of dealing with school.

YANBU it annoys me that this is the case with us. DH once phoned me in a panic on a Friday afternoon to tell me that there was a training day on the Monday. Of course I knew and had arranged and paid for childcare.

I do forward him all the emails, but no idea how much he reads and he certainly doesn't take responsibility unless I ask him to.

If there really are lots of women out there who hate being told about these things and being the ones responsible, then they should sort their own families out instead of pretending it can't be helped and all women are forced into this position. There is a difference between being entirely happy with the situation and feeling it is inevitable and uncontrollable. Plenty are fine with it as it is, I'm afraid, and when not happy, are capable of communicating this to their husband.

'I think men love their children through the mother. Women don't have children with men thinking 'oh, they won't love them but it's ok, as I will.'

But for the most part left to their sole devices men are shit parents.'

Slightly on a tangent but I really can't figure out why feminists are the ones who are called 'man-haters' when non-feminists are the ones who make statements like this.

I'm sure you have good reasons to feel like that user, but I know plenty of men who are fantastic parents (including my DH).

I am a feminist. But I'm also a realist.

My dad was a fantastic parent. You really could have scoured the world over and not found a more loving and devoted man. Until my mum died.

I pray it doesn't happen to you sparrowhawk but your loving husband and fabulous father might be less so without you.

'I pray it doesn't happen to you sparrowhawk but your loving husband and fabulous father might be less so without you.'

I'm really sorry you had such a tough time user.

If I died, I'm sure my DH would struggle with grief but in terms of looking after the kids he'd just have to carry on what he's doing now - he does the majority of child-related stuff.

Requesting but it's not just reading a couple of emails is it?

I too could weep at the first few answers on this, it appears that men are happy to perpetuate the myth that they cannot get their silly little brains around this stuff when the reality is that they see this work as beneath them and therefore 'wife work'.

It is very frustrating trying to hand over some of this to a man who claims to be a feminist (like my ex) but who also knows that his wife will step up and do it rather than see the kids suffer. It's hard being a single parent but tbh not that much harder when you're already used to shouldering all the organisational and emotional load of having kids.

roundabout

I do agree with that. I don't think i realised how much iI was the default parent until i returned to work and saw there were many areas where i didn't have to be the one who did all the thinking, planning and knowing about everything. Being a SAHM sucks you into that because of course for a while it makes total sense.

When I realised and communicated this to my DH he was great about it, but of course thread after thread on here attests to the fact that many men are really not that willing to acknowledge their passivity in this respect.

And there are a surprising number of women who really do think that men who work should not have to do anything with/for the children, whether their wife works or not

'If there really are lots of women out there who hate being told about these things and being the ones responsible, then they should sort their own families out instead of pretending it can't be helped and all women are forced into this position.'

Why is it, do you think, round, that it is mostly mums who deal with schools?

It's always tricky when you get into specifics isn't it obviously you know your DH better than I do!

On the whole though if we look at national trends, men don't stick around loving and providing their kids when the relationship with Mum has ended, whether through divorce or death. I think it's foolish to ignore that trend. I don't think it's a social makeup but an instinct.

it really isn't up to women to make men step up. it's the man's job to be a decent human being in the first place. just because many women end up feeling manouvered into being the responsible parent doesn't mean the man is somehow not the one to blame.

I'm with you OP. We're also a household where it has varied who does the most for DD, and yet the schools seem invariably to assume it will be me, even when I've been very clear that DH is the goto person for us.

'it really isn't up to women to make men step up. it's the man's job to be a decent human being in the first place. just because many women end up feeling manouvered into being the responsible parent doesn't mean the man is somehow not the one to blame.'

Very well said KickAss. If men give a shit about being involved, then they shouldn't wait for their partner to force them into it, they should just do it.

it's about the fact that in a group of 30 children not a single father is signed up to deal with school admin.

No, at arranging playdates and drinks with other parents shudder, there were 54 email addresses on the school admin, it was just the entirely optional social stuff that was women only.

'On the whole though if we look at national trends, men don't stick around loving and providing their kids when the relationship with Mum has ended, whether through divorce or death. I think it's foolish to ignore that trend. I don't think it's a social makeup but an instinct.'

I agree that that trend exists, but I don't think it's necessarily an instinct. My DH was quite disengaged from the children when they were little, so much so that I threatened divorce. We sorted it out and he realised that he was disengaged because he had been taught to be - all of his role models had been of the martyr mother and the disengaged father. Once he broke down that training he learned how to do what needed to be done and I would say there is no difference between us now in terms of engagement. In fact, in many ways he's more engaged - he will seek to spend time with the children more than I do - I need more solitude.

Hiphop - he had a panic because he hates doing anything to do with school, not because he can't. But I don't mind doing the school stuff and couldn't do his job, so we each have our strengths and weaknesses.

The school put us both on my dd's contact list. In the end I asked them to remove dh because he was irritating the fuck out of me by forwarding me emails 'for info' from the school ...which I had already received.....

'Hiphop - he had a panic because he hates doing anything to do with school, not because he can't. But I don't mind doing the school stuff and couldn't do his job, so we each have our strengths and weaknesses.'

Isn't it funny how women tend to be 'good' at jobs that are unpaid, while men hate them? I wonder why that is?

Men seem to think that taking care of their children is optional. Imagine the chaos if women had the same attitude.

KickAss

I agree. It suits many men. But they are just as socially-conditioned as we are, and genuinely may not realise

In my DH's case, he absolutely expected to care for our DCs as much as I did, right from the beginning, and he did, but the 'admin' stuff became my realm because I was home with them

It's absolute nonsense that men can't manage to deal with school. If a man can hold down any sort of job then he can deal with the school. The reason he doesn't is because he doesn't want to.

another one feeling very depressed after reading this thread.

I loved it when mine went to Secondary because everyone has to be less involved