To have corrected this child when his mother didn't.

[Designerenvy]

Background, we were at birthday party for a 6 year old. There were anout 16 kids at it ... 4 mum's present to supervise.

One boy was rude all day and just causing havoc.
He was upsetting all the kids , calling them names and using really bad language. The mum was there and just laughed everything off, didn't once correct him.
I ignored him and his mum as much as I could until he pushed another boy off a trampoline and the other boy was screaming in pain. Tg no damage done...no head injury or broken bones....but I'd say a good bit of bruising.
At which stage I brought the boy back to his mum and asked her to deal with him as he had injured other child ( who's mum wasn't there). She just laughed it off at which stage I explained to her ds how dangerous it was and that the other boy could have been very badly hurt. cos she wasnt about to explain it to him!
I asked him to apologise and he downright refused.
I went back to injured boy and the mum said the injured boy had started the argument at which point I said that her ds still shouldn't have done what he did. The mum said it was none of my business but I felt there was no one there to stick up for the injured boy as his mum was not present.
Did I overstep the mark ?
By the way I know for a fact this boy has no special needs etc as I know the background well.... if he did, I would of course have handled it differently. I was more annoyed with the mum than the boy tbh!

I am forever telling other children not to push etc in the park playground. I nanny a 1 year old and I always make sure whatever he is doing other children can still access the equipment, but for some reason children feel the need to try to push between me and the baby or push him off things. A bright, 'Oh, we don't push.' or 'Be careful of the baby and don't push' is fine I think. But the kids still look at you like you've grown three heads!

You absolutely did the right thing OP.

Asking him to apologise was out of order because that family may have a different policy on apologies than you have

Eh? What rubbish. Why not bring your child up as a kind courteous individual who can fit in with the rest of society? If you hurt someone, you apologise.

ILostIt It's something I've only come across on mn but some believe that an apology should never be forced as then it is insincere.

Doesn't matter if the child had SN, to be frank. His mother should have been paying attention and should have ensured he wasn't hurting other children.

I had this in the swimming pool a few weeks ago. DD (aged 2.5, building her confidence in the water very slowly) finally used the toddler flume by herself for the first time. Signposted for under-3s only, in the toddler pool, which has signs up all over the place about parental supervision.

She went back up again, and as soon as she launched herself off, this boy (aged maybe 7 or 8) went down straight after her, and landed on top of her at the bottom. I had watched this boy push other kids out of the way all morning, climb over them etc. His parents just stood and chatted and laughed together. They weren't looking in his direction much. Lifeguards useless as usual.

She was hysterical. I went over, sharply told him to be careful, and took my daughter away. His mother started demanding to know what had happened. I turned to her and said "he's just landed on top of my toddler. you need to be watching him". She said "he's autistic 😐" then looked at me as if I'd kicked her kitten through a fan and stalked off.

Like, so what? He's three times the size of the other kids in this toddler pool. It doesn't give him a free pass to be knocking them all over the shop.

yanbu

I would have done the same

I just think that the parents that don't discipline /free parent their children when they're small are the parents that are at their wit's end when they're out of control teenagers, moaning that they have no respect and they don't know where they went wrong.

An apology should never be forced as then it's insincere I've heard it all now.
It's about teaching them respect for others and empathy for other people's feelings. If they've done something wrong, they need to take responsibility, whether 6yrs old or 16.

You totally did the right thing. People need to accept that their children do wrong and punish appropriately.

An apology should never be forced as then it's insincere

All the better if making an apology makes the child in the wrong feel uncomfortable. That is part of the lesson. Don't hurt people & you don't need to make apologies!

Santas I think the theory is something along the lines of it teaches children to make false apologies and not really learn empathy. Nothing to do with their own embarrassment. Anyway, I agree with you.

Apologies are absolutely pointless unless you mean them.

All it does, is teach children to lie.

You can call it bollocks if you like, I think it's bollocks to tell someone you're sorry when you clearly don't give a shit.

I disagree that it's teaching children to lie.
Saying sorry is good manners, on a par with saying Thank you to Auntie for that present you don't really like, showing appreciation for a meal cooked for you (although you hated it). It's teaching children to be respectful of other's feelings.

I've yet to meet a child that spends time pondering the concept of sincerity before saying sorry to his friend for hitting him.

There are two kinds of apology - the "functional" apology and the sincere apology.

I just made those terms up, I'm sure there are better ones.

If you hurt someone you apologise obviously, and sometimes children have to be told to so they can learn how things work. Sometimes the child will feel they were wronged first and won't want to apologize - in this case it is "playing the game" of keeping things harmonious and smoothing things over so things don't escalate, so it is a functional apology not a "real" sincere one.

I do think there are situations where a forced apology is utterly wrong, particularly between family members and especially where it's a matter of opinion who was in the wrong. When people start "demanding" apologies its often a sign of a six of one and half a dozen of the other situation where one person is determined to "win" and humiliate the other by forcing them to apologize and take all responsibility and blame. In that case it's often the person in the wrong who extorts the apology from someone other family members find it easier to bully into eating humble pie to placitate a stroppy character. Sometimes even when blame is clear within a family it's better to wait for a sincere apology - where a child apologises to their own parent or sibling for example.

In this case the apology was a functional one and it's legitimate to insist, but I do agree with the school of thought that forced apologies are sometimes very wrong indeed.

I don't suppose I've explained that well, but I hope I makes some sense!

My parents made me apologise to my sister every time we argued because she was younger (not by much) and would cry and tantrum - I was less dramatic and they found it easier to tell me to apologise regardless of what had happened (they rarely even asked what had happened and would usually have been in another room - she'd run to a parent crying and they'd just tell me to apologise to her to shut her up). So sometimes a default option of demanding a child apologise then go away and be friends does nothing but breed resentment and encourage dramatics and stroppyness.

You did the right thing OP, her failure to make sure he apologised as well should have resulted in them being asked to leave the party (by the host)

Agree with comments regarding no discipline like this results in children growing up to be criminals with no sense of right and wrong and no empathy for others.

The Autism card is becoming tiresome also and quite frankly deeply offensive to parents who do have genuinely autistic children. Being Autistic does not automatically mean bad unruly and unchecked behaviour.

TiredFeet post about the parents who failed to care their child was playing in the toddler area is typical of how certain people in society are dodging rules and responsibilities by flashing the Autistic card "She was hysterical. I went over, sharply told him to be careful, and took my daughter away. His mother started demanding to know what had happened. I turned to her and said "he's just landed on top of my toddler. you need to be watching him". She said "he's autistic 😐" then looked at me as if I'd kicked her kitten through a fan and stalked off. "

I'd have replied okay but how does your son having autism stop you from being able to read the signs or see him causing danger to toddlers??

Oops TiredFeet should say SoreFeet

Fair point drinkingtea about saying sorry. Things being fair is so important between siblings so it must have really hurt that you always had to take the blame!

I have a suspicion that some parents use the "I don't agree with forced apologies" as an excuse not to reprimand their child who is refusing to cooperate or behave!

I personally would have just told my child and the other child to keep away from the unruly one. Nothing to be gained by speaking to a mother who is laughing at her child's mean behaviour.
I am interested to know how you would KNOW the child has no sn though. Some close friends and members of my own family don't know that my child has asd.
The parent was failing to parent regardless of sn but it always interests me how people can be so sure in these threads that a child doesn't have sn yet never seem to be able to explain why.

Phrases like "autism card" are offensive to this parent with a 'genuine' autistic child. Please don't use it.

If my child had done this I would have told him his behaviour was unacceptable and got him to apologise. My child does have sn but there is no excuse for hurting others. Besides which, how are they supposed to learn what is and is not acceptable?

I find "autism card" offensive too.

"The autism card"!

That's horrible!

And re this thread, ALL the parents of kids with SN I know, are easy to spot! We are all invariably like speeding meerkats, watching for the next trigger.

Autism card is offensive but people passing off their poor parenting and lack of supervision on a badly behaved child in the name of autism not offensive to you?

Lucie firstly you haven't apologised for your offensive term and secondly you've just equated autism and "bad" behaviour.

My ds has asd. I'd never use the 'autism card ' to excuse his behaviour but I might mention it to people( whom I know well and trust ) if I felt it wld explain why he came across rude/ disinterested/ even bold. But I'd still explain the situation to him and discipline as necessary.
That term was very offensive.

I'd have replied okay but how does your son having autism stop you from being able to read the signs or see him causing danger to toddlers??hmm

It's WAY harder to parent a child with autism as you have to anticipate all the time. ALL the time. And looking away for a second can result in situations like this. However the safest alternative is to keep him at home isn't it?

I'd have been mortified if my child had done this but I think I'd have reacted in a similar way rather than give you chapter and verse on his medical history, mainly because it's not your business and I'm knackered. That's not excusing landing on toddlers but it's contextualising.