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Original poster

Grenfell tower exposes stark inequalities in our society.

270 replies

thinkiamgoingcrazy · 22/06/2017 05:47

In the new luxury block some of the Grenfell residents have been rehoused in, 3 flats put together are "worth" an eye watering 5 million pounds. The same amount of money as the government has pledged for the Grenfell victims.

What is the matter with our society that such vast inequalities are able to exist? When did London become an investment bank for the rich rather than somewhere for its citizens to live with dignity Angry?

[Why are there some "private" squares in London where the benches have plaques on them reading that they are only for the patrons of the nearby hotel Angry?]

Why are we such an unequal society in general with a massive gap in earnings, and a tiny precentage of our population owning such a huge amount of our wealth?

I don't think that this is a dignified or progressive way to live. Nothing against capitalism, but ffs it can't be allowed to do its rampant worst. IMO.

OP posts:
CaoNiMartacus · 22/06/2017 05:59

You nail it in your last line. Capitalism. There's no holding it back now it's on course. The rich will continue to grow richer, and less willing to alter the system to benefit the poor. The only answer is some sort of revolution, and that won't happen because the structure is too entrenched now. It's a total shit show.

makeourfuture · 22/06/2017 06:07

The only answer is some sort of revolution

There can be peaceful change. It is harder. But it can be done.

These hoarders (and that is what they are) are fewer. We the many can join together!

Squeegle · 22/06/2017 06:09

I actually think that recent events are showing we don't all want this rampant capitalism. People are as important as money. I'm feeling a bit more optimistic that things are
Changing. We can't carry on as we are.

Out2pasture · 22/06/2017 06:26

I don't think it's about capitalism but it's about antisocial behavior and how drug and alcohol issues are associated with a certain group and we have not found a way to deal with those issues.
I can guarantee you no one who purchased their million pound flat will mind having a nurse fireman casher or cab driver living next door. but a neighbor who steals mail pisses in dark corners or has unruly parties is a different kettle of fish......but not for just them.

Original poster
thinkiamgoingcrazy · 22/06/2017 06:26

Just found this:

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/outrage-as-luxury-flat-residents-complain-rehomed-grenfell-families-will-lower-house-prices-a3570331.html

What delightful people Hmm.

OP posts:
lbsjob87 · 22/06/2017 06:29

I'm with you, Squeegle, I'm actually feeling a bit more optimistic about the future than I was a few weeks ago.

Grenfell was, I think, a defining moment in our country's history, a bit like Hillsborough has been.

It's taken an absolute tragedy and travesty to inform some and remind others of the divide between rich and poor and the way each is treated.

In this case, though, there have been a whole series of terrible decisions and revelations that have made everything much worse.

The scale of it, the emerging reasons for the scale of it (they are now claiming those incredibly flammable, slightly cheaper panels let off bloody cyanide as they burned) and also the frankly disgusting response from the authorities within the immediate and short term aftermath have sparked a hell of a lot of public anger and scrutiny.

I think we are all more aware of the cover up culture now, which is why I mentioned Hillsborough, and with social media as well, it will be a lot harder for those in the know to get away without answering a lot of questions.

Headofthehive55 · 22/06/2017 06:35

I think out2 is spot on. We lived in mixed housing - it was horrid. The antisocial behaviour was awful. I don't want to live like that!

As for trying to make things equal - only money seems to be a consideration. Some people may be poor, yet have so much more than the apparently wealthy person next door. Their health, friends, time, family.
Equality champions conveniently miss that aspect of the equation.

histinyhandsarefrozen · 22/06/2017 06:37

Recent events have shown people DO want rampant capitalism.

Why else would they follow millionaires farage, Boris, Rees mogg and Davis in their bid to throw off the health and safety shackles of the eu?

Partypolitics99 · 22/06/2017 06:47

In reponse the the linked article on poster has put up I think it's outrageous that they have been housed in the expensive nice flats.

How can decent everyday people be elected to live with pompous, arrogant snobs with no empathy or compassion.

Partypolitics99 · 22/06/2017 06:48

Sorry that was meant to be expected and not elected

Shitalopram · 22/06/2017 06:51

YANBU

I think many are ready for peaceful, progressive change and prepared to put in the work and sacrifice needed to make it so.

StealthPolarBear · 22/06/2017 06:53

Head of the hive I don't think they do. But it's undeniable that how much money you have tends to link to how healthy and happy you are. That isn't fair and that's what is trying to be addressed.

Squeegle · 22/06/2017 06:57

I think that the election showed some encouraging signs of support for a candidate of integrity who has shown that ther is another way. And all this despite the incredible hatred shown to him from most parts of the media. The atrocity at Grenfell has further reinforced this groundswell of opinion that we have been letting market forces drive us all
Almost to the point of self destruction. Brexit won't be so "hard" now, May will be forced to gain a greater cross section of collaboration. Why on earth wouldn't we tackle something like Brexit with all our finest brains? And then maybe An election where all the progressive parties could work together? Imagine where that could get us!

makeourfuture · 22/06/2017 07:00

I don't think it's about capitalism but it's about antisocial behavior and how drug and alcohol issues are associated with a certain group

The Bullingdon Club?

BabsGanoush · 22/06/2017 07:00

I don't know why there some elements who feel this jealously and envy at those who have worked hard and succeeded in becoming successful.

Education and opportunity is available to all in this country but those who grasp it are vilified. OK, there are some who are born into privilege but whats wrong with wanting to pass on your success to your children.

Some people need to stop complaining about those who have more than them.

Nikephorus · 22/06/2017 07:00

Why are there some "private" squares in London where the benches have plaques on them reading that they are only for the patrons of the nearby hotel?
Presumably the squares are on land owned by the hotels and therefore they can put whatever placards they want on benches. That's how land ownership works. If we want more public spaces then we have to pay for them via tax and council tax so that the councils can afford to buy them.
And if there was no disparity of earnings and everyone was on the same then there would be no incentive for anyone to try harder. The result would be a lack of inventions, a lack of progress, a lack of anything worth having. Do we all want to be the same? Some people are happy not working and having very little - others prefer to work long hours to earn money for their future. Yes some people earn too much for what they do (footballers for instance) but that's the forces of supply & demand. If no-one watched football then the players wouldn't be getting paid. And the mega-expensive buildings have created jobs - the builders, the people creating & installing the fancy fittings, those working in the buildings (cleaners, gardeners, security etc.). It all fits together and you can't turn round and say "we want all the benefits but we won't accept that some people have more than others" because it can't work like that.

Squeegle · 22/06/2017 07:01

Nobody , whether a millionaire or
council worker wants to live next to antisocial behaviour- so why do we assume that if you're a council tenant that it's ok! Of course it's not,
and it's not ok to just accept that there are pockets of deprivation and leave it at that. Society is there for us all. Not just the ones who can buy a nice house.

Squeegle · 22/06/2017 07:04

There is a happy medium between working for what you have and helping out those who are vulnerable. Our society has gone too far in the wrong direction

makeourfuture · 22/06/2017 07:05

Education and opportunity is available to all in this country but those who grasp it are vilified

The banking and finance industries have been shown to hold little regard for things like ethics and legality. It"s not all about hard work.

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 22/06/2017 07:05

People pay for what they want - eg I may buy a shirt in Primark for £3, you may choose to go to m&S and spend £25, and Fred over there will choose to go to Savill Row and have bespoke one made for £200.

Who is to say which of us is right or wrong, or are we all free to spend our money how we choose?

This gap between rich and poor that is so often mentioned. Alan Sugar came out of nothing and built an empire. If you have the drive to succeed you will, but all too often people are happy to accept life and not want to change it. We all have access to the same state education - using Sugar as an example, he has the background of Jewish emigrant, state secondary modern, became a market trader.

I may not be Alan Sugar, but you and your iPhone with a Starbucks in your other hand are not going to tell me I should be having a guilt trip because I have worked hard for (not inherited) my little house .

makeourfuture · 22/06/2017 07:08

there would be no incentive for anyone to try harder

A dark view of humanity.

The80sweregreat · 22/06/2017 07:11

There has always been social division - people looked down on me because i was from a council estate and even now people say shudder when i mention the area where my dad still lives to this day! There is more a community spirit around there than where i live now but its reputation goes before it and always will.

olliegarchy99 · 22/06/2017 07:12

TBH I don't think there is that much 'inequality' outside the London bubble.
I do find it irritating that so many posters see what things are like in London (and environs) and extrapolate from that to England/Britain/the UK society being so unequal /despicable/at war.
The majority of us do not live in London so no we do not think it is 'the endgame' at all.

StiginaGrump · 22/06/2017 07:12

Not guilt just concern that we have people working really hard too, often in public services who can't even afford their little house.
Schooling and jobs and success aren't an equal playing ground - but do well and believe you caused it alone regardless of external factors (we all over rate our efficacy)

Squeegle · 22/06/2017 07:14

stilldriving, no one will begrudge you your coffee unless you have paid for it out of ill gotten gains . The challenge is that there are many people who are not able to grasp the potential that education will bring.
And what has grown up in this country recently is a kind of "every
Man for himself" mentality where we don't help those in real need, and thus as a society are becoming less
Caring and more grasping,
We need to hold on to our wealth as we know that no one is there to support when the going gets tough. And then it becomes a self serving vicious circle.