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Original poster

Grenfell tower exposes stark inequalities in our society.

270 replies

thinkiamgoingcrazy · 22/06/2017 05:47

In the new luxury block some of the Grenfell residents have been rehoused in, 3 flats put together are "worth" an eye watering 5 million pounds. The same amount of money as the government has pledged for the Grenfell victims.

What is the matter with our society that such vast inequalities are able to exist? When did London become an investment bank for the rich rather than somewhere for its citizens to live with dignity Angry?

[Why are there some "private" squares in London where the benches have plaques on them reading that they are only for the patrons of the nearby hotel Angry?]

Why are we such an unequal society in general with a massive gap in earnings, and a tiny precentage of our population owning such a huge amount of our wealth?

I don't think that this is a dignified or progressive way to live. Nothing against capitalism, but ffs it can't be allowed to do its rampant worst. IMO.

OP posts:
BoysofMelody · 22/06/2017 09:33

For all the sympathy on here, how many of you would happily have these families move in next door either side of your houses? Really? We purposely bought our 1930s semi

Err, me. Because I do live next to 'these people' whatever you mean by that. Our stair is a mix of privately owned, council and private let's. I have no idea who owns their flat or who is a council tenant or who is a private renter nor do I care. It is a great place to live. Don't judge everyone by your own Hyacinth Bucket standards.

LadyinCement · 22/06/2017 09:36

In London there is obviously more of a stark difference and does not take into account those in the middle. I am not at the bottom of society but I would no more be able to afford a flat (let alone a luxury flat) in Kensington than I would be able to fly to the moon. In fact there is probably more chance of my being on Richard Branson's space rocket than owning even a studio flat in Chelsea.

So should the middle classes be angry too that they cannot access central London property? Anyone who works in central London has to schlep bloody miles on public transport to get to their place of business - be that a hospital/office/fire station/shop.

I really would bring back the workhouse for people who trash their properties. There was some social housing built near me - nice houses. Within a few months there was rubbish piled outside one - yes, including nappies, burnt stuff in garden and a window boarded up. The council should have chucked them out. Housing is a right, but a social housing tenancy is a privilege that should be able to be revoked.

AlbanHefin · 22/06/2017 09:37

Ifyougodown.

We know nothing for sure at this stage.

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 22/06/2017 09:41

Well if you want to take that route Alban, why are you bringing Caroline Lucas into this?

Leanback · 22/06/2017 09:42

Inequality is not just a London issue Hmm

AlbanHefin · 22/06/2017 09:44

The differential in cladding costs that I have seen quoted so far don't make it look much of an issue when you look at the overall project costs.

Experience shows that likely there is a whole series of errors that has led to this nightmare. Each choice on its own can often be justified , fudged etc. There was a lot of money spent; it wasn't spent with wisdom.

AlbanHefin · 22/06/2017 09:44

To show it would be daft to do so.

AlbanHefin · 22/06/2017 09:45

That was in answer to IfYouGoDowns last post.

darceybussell · 22/06/2017 10:04

There was a larger welfare state under the last labour government and people didn't like that either. Lots of working class people agreed with things like the cap on benefits because they didn't like going out to work when their neighbours stayed at home. I'm not saying I have the answer by the way - I just think it's very difficult to strike a balance between reducing the inequality and also having a system that people perceive to be 'fair'.

The80sweregreat · 22/06/2017 10:30

darcey, so true - I do agree with you. no answers to any of this. there
will always be inequality.

histinyhandsarefrozen · 22/06/2017 10:51

You just have to look at the complacency on this thread to see that things are in no way about to change soon.

People confusing taking action with a state of communism? WTAF

Of course inequalities exist in every walk of life, but at the moment in the UK, they are stark and are worsening daily. If you are born poor, the likelihood is that you will have far worse health, worse mental health and shorter life expectancy than if you are born wealthy.

In fact, there ARE plenty of measures that we could take that would help reduce extreme health, social, educational inequality but while the ideas persist that 'it's all their fault' or 'who wants them living near you?' or 'meh, so what..' things will worsen.

Eve · 22/06/2017 11:27

I do agreed hands, but would widen that to say - there are plenty of measure we could ALL take...

people have to want to be helped, receive that help and act upon it.

Itstoohottoday · 22/06/2017 11:51

people have to want to be helped

Lots of people want to be helped, but no one wants to help them.

Headofthehive55 · 22/06/2017 12:34

The more you tend towards paying people the same the more unfair society becomes.

You pay people as compensation. Thus the brain surgeon gets a lot in later life as in early days they paid to train, and worked lots of hours studying.

I am paid at the same rate as my colleagues. There is absolutely no incentive to do extra as I wouldn't get paid more.

histinyhandsarefrozen · 22/06/2017 12:51

This is very weird.

People on this thread seem to think addressing widening inequality means we pay cleaners the same as brain surgeons.

Where is this straw-man coming from?!

Do you genuinely not see that there are things as a society we could do better?

VelvetHeart · 22/06/2017 12:55

You are always going to have stark inequality because we always have and always will.

If we re house all the Grenfell folk in nice, new apartments in a better area are they all going to magically start striving hard to educate themselves and their children to a higher standard? Going to magically stop illegally sub letting out their new apartment? Going to magically stop claiming benefits and get jobs?

No one has the right to live in central London. If you can't afford the prices then you don't live there.

Original poster
thinkiamgoingcrazy · 22/06/2017 13:01

Agree completely histinyhands - that's what I was trying to express.

I think it's to do with how civilised a society is - like the efforts that are made in Sweden for example.

Somebody defended the bench in the private square only being allowed for patrons of the hotel. I don't think that's right - by all means buy the square (though this is questionable, but don't then deny the inhabitants of and visitors to the city the right to relax there. You might have bought a "public space", but the civic thing would be to allow access to it to everyone. Would a hotel guest really ask someone outside to get off a bench? It's not the hotel's private garden.

I think we are losing a sense of living in a civic society where respect is due to everyone. And where people who are working hard in essential jobs should be able to put a roof over their heads without relying on handouts.

It's a generalisation, but I think we are being priced out of our own lives.

OP posts:
Dawndonnaagain · 22/06/2017 13:02

assumption after assumption after assumption. There are times when humanity disgusts me.

Original poster
thinkiamgoingcrazy · 22/06/2017 13:03

And there should also be an adequate safety net for those who can't work.

OP posts:
MotherOfBleach · 22/06/2017 13:05

No one has the right to live in central London. If you can't afford the prices then you don't live there

So central London does not need cleaners, shop workers, nurses, firemen, police officers, bin men, street cleaners, civil servants, dental nurses, vet nurses, hairdressers, carers etc?

LadyinCement · 22/06/2017 13:14

London really does need these workers. These workers . But if you are a worker you've got a cat's chance in hell of getting a social housing property in zone 1.

Squeegle · 22/06/2017 13:14

That's the whole point of what we are saying- inequality is affecting us all! London has always been expensive, but why as a society are we happy to build buildings that can only be afforded by the non domiciled super rich from around the world, rather than house our own citizens who are working and living here? It is free market gone wrong!

histinyhandsarefrozen · 22/06/2017 13:14

You are always going to have stark inequality because we always have and always will.

It's simply NOT true to suggest that inequality is fixed at a certain level.
We know that inequality is getting worse in the UK and we know there are things we could do to prevent the gap between the rich and poor widening further. Why is this so hard to admit? The UK is one of the most unequal societies in the developed world.

If that's fine with you, that's a shame, but let's not pretend that there's nothing the UK could do about it if it wanted to.

Squeegle · 22/06/2017 13:16

Hear hear histiny; it's almost as if we have been brainwashed to think this is how it has to be - but it really doesn't!!

flyingwithwings · 22/06/2017 13:55

This site with its 'London' centre of the world ideas is so out of kilter with the '50' million or so that don't live in London or 'Brighton.

Hence understanding of inequality is warped

There are millions of people in the United Kingdom that have probably never ever visited London (even on a school trip ). Millions more that could not even afford a night in a Premier Inn in London.

The people housed in Grenfell Tower were not as 'Poor' or suffering as much inequality comparative to the working poor in Hull or Rochdale !

Posters on here just compare everything between zone 1 and zone 5.