Grenfell tower exposes stark inequalities in our society.

[thinkiamgoingcrazy]

In the new luxury block some of the Grenfell residents have been rehoused in, 3 flats put together are "worth" an eye watering 5 million pounds. The same amount of money as the government has pledged for the Grenfell victims.

What is the matter with our society that such vast inequalities are able to exist? When did London become an investment bank for the rich rather than somewhere for its citizens to live with dignity ?

[Why are there some "private" squares in London where the benches have plaques on them reading that they are only for the patrons of the nearby hotel ?]

Why are we such an unequal society in general with a massive gap in earnings, and a tiny precentage of our population owning such a huge amount of our wealth?

I don't think that this is a dignified or progressive way to live. Nothing against capitalism, but ffs it can't be allowed to do its rampant worst. IMO.

However the beer swilling, fag smoking, anti social poor are unacceptable. Although this is not pleasant we have to consider how these people became this way in the first place, place in support, rather than labelling them and throwing them on the dung heap

Place in support? There's plenty of support. You can lead a horse to water etc etc

You're conveniently ignoring the fact the horror households that blight estates throughout the country do so because they fucking well enjoy it. Much more fun to be listening to your drum and bass on the sofa you've placed out the front of your house off your tits on frosty jacks at 11am then getting up for work at 7

I lived 30 miles out of London 15 years ago where they built a luxury apartment complex with a private swimming pool. The council decided that half the apartments should go to social housing. Within months there were dirty nappies in said pool rubbish everywhere and the price of all apartments fell considerably. It was a great opportunity for those with less to live well and a few mucked it up for everyone else as they had no respect for thier enviroment. So i can understand why the well off do not want to have those that dont have in their building incase they get those type of tenants. The council never did that again.

Disclaimer: this isnt me being a snob as I live off benefits and am in social housing due to disabilities.

68% of the electorate turned out this time. Highest for a long while. If the progressive parties can get it together next time we might. E in with a chance- just think what the polls said at the beginning of the campaign. Voter apathy is starting to dissipate. And for that reason I'm optimistic!

No one is saying that everyone should be completely equal. But those at the bottom should at least have what they need to live! How much less do you want them to have? They are human beings, they should have decent healthcare, decent homes, decent education.

Relative poverty is a major cause of crime.

We know that addiction and anti social behaviour and many mental health issues result from childhood trauma/stress/neglect/emotional neglect. These people are broken and then they have kids who are broken, partly due to not being emotionally mature/mentally well enough to bring their children up well, but also the possibility of some things being passed on genetically (epigenetics) is being discovered. Is that their fault?

These sort of people are rarely able to make a decent life for themselves. They never had a chance. The answer is not to take more from this section of society and blame them for their position in life. That isn't going to fix them.

StillDriving and how the heck do you know she didnt need some of her tax credits, to spend on things like food etc. You really don't know exactly what goes on on people's lives, so stop being so nosey.

Olli you don't think there's much inequality outside London??!

" If you have the drive to succeed you will"
No, you might. But they make the news. The ones who have the intellect and drive but cannot escape their circumstances do not on the whole. They just become someone else who didn't try hard enough or want it badly enough.

You really don't know exactly what goes on on people's lives, so stop being so nosey.

If we are going to take that attitude then we might as well stop this thread here. Isn't this precisely what public policy is all about?

I'm perfectly happy with capitalism. But not the levels of inequality. Lower levels of inequality is better for all including those at the top of the pile. It just maybe doesn't feel that way!

On the other hand the money we have to house people and to deal with emergencies, and to lay on public services, and a lot of the choice people have in life comes from capitalism and the trappings of it (like being able to save or borrow).

What we do is we make sure we don't waste people, that everyone gets the basic education and opportunities they need to succeed to a level they want to and are driven to. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

My brother lives in Dublin and after the crash unsold/sellable apartments in his block went to a housing association .... the tenants made his and other owners lives a misery due to unsociable behavior. He sold at a loss just to get away.

I do feel on mumsnet that antisocial behavior from the poorer off in society cant be addressed, but it needs to be.

with regard to : These sort of people are rarely able to make a decent life for themselves. They never had a chance.

I disagree... people need to take some responsibility for themselves, for their environments, for their own lives and stop blaming everyone else for their problems.

Yes there needs to be a minimum standard and minimal inequality.
Easy for me to say :)

Yes there needs to be a minimum standard and minimal inequality.
Easy for me to say :)

I do feel on mumsnet that antisocial behavior from the poorer off in society cant be addressed, but it needs to be.

Agree. We lived on a small development of about 20 houses, 5 were privately owned, 15 were bought by an investor and rented back to the housing association who used them as emergency accommodation. About half the people they put into the accomodation were fine. The other half weren't - noise, rubbish, illegal subletting of the garage, moonlight flits leaving the house trashed and the final straw was bringing the kids home from pre-school to see the police battering in the door of the house next door but one and arresting two people for suppling Class A drugs. It was AWFUL and we could not wait to get out.

The "poor people are salt of the earth, just like the rest of us, need our understanding, are lovely and friendly and just need the opportunity" is not always true and it's naive to say that it is.

I disagree... people need to take some responsibility for themselves, for their environments, for their own lives and stop blaming everyone else for their problems

Disagree all you like. Doesn't change the facts. Whether you think it's their fault or not, the problem won't be fixed by making their chance to thrive even smaller, by taking away mental health services and decent affordable housing, decent education etc. What is a deprived 12 year old going to do to change the fact that our education system is failing them? Oh yeah that's right they just need to work harder and take some responsibility for their own life.

I guess all the people in third world countries are the same. Feckless. Need to get a grip and work their way up in the world.

a deprived 12 year old has parents who should be taking responsibility and who should be making an effort.

Plenty of children come through the state education system and manage just fine.

...but easier to find blame with everything and everyone else than take a good hard look at yourself and do something for yourself.

a deprived 12 year old has parents who should be taking responsibility and who should be making an effort

Yes they should but they don't. Its not their fault. They would probably have kids and the same situation will happen over again because they have never known anything different. It's a cycle.

There needs to be a safety net but there also needs to be a sense of personal responsibility.
When I was young there was shame in being on benefits. Now it's "I know my rights".
We need rights and responsibilities.

I trained in a safety conscious design discipline.

Through that prism I see it as a failure of a inherent safety.

One point is that eco box ticking has possibly promoted the adoption of this dubious cladding.

I am not asking for Caroline Lucas 's head on a plate.

Purits, I don't think you have read my post correctly. I was specifically talking to StillDriving who has been telling us about her friend, who has squandered all her tax credits instead of saving for a house deposit.

My gosh, these rich home owners must be absolutely squalid. I live in a highly deprived and we don't have nappies in the street, garbage everywhere and broken glass strewn all over the floor.

I had been working hard to move up the chain but if that's what living near the rich is like, I think I'll stay here next to the decent folk.

One point is that eco box ticking has possibly promoted the adoption of this dubious cladding.
I am not asking for Caroline Lucas 's head on a plate

Don't be so ridiculous, it is already known that this cladding was not fit for purpose, if they had spent £5000 more, it would have been fire retardant. Instead they cut corners and a whole block of flats set on fire. It has nothing to do with Caroline Lucas and everything to do with cost cutting.

For all the sympathy on here, how many of you would happily have these families move in next door either side of your houses? Really? We purposely bought our 1930s semi because it was on an entirely private development and not a single new build development for a few miles. I grew up piss poor. A lot of people I've known for years are still on those council estates pissing around. They've no desire to get out because they are fully taken care of. I didn't want my son growing up around that, sorry. You do what's best for your family don't you?

Macarena No, every person in North Korea is certainly not equal. Maybe they are on the nice shiny front that the government likes to portray, but look a further in and you will see a LOT different.