Grenfell tower exposes stark inequalities in our society.

[thinkiamgoingcrazy]

In the new luxury block some of the Grenfell residents have been rehoused in, 3 flats put together are "worth" an eye watering 5 million pounds. The same amount of money as the government has pledged for the Grenfell victims.

What is the matter with our society that such vast inequalities are able to exist? When did London become an investment bank for the rich rather than somewhere for its citizens to live with dignity ?

[Why are there some "private" squares in London where the benches have plaques on them reading that they are only for the patrons of the nearby hotel ?]

Why are we such an unequal society in general with a massive gap in earnings, and a tiny precentage of our population owning such a huge amount of our wealth?

I don't think that this is a dignified or progressive way to live. Nothing against capitalism, but ffs it can't be allowed to do its rampant worst. IMO.

Yawn. Yet another thread started by a Corbyn supporter. I'd like to live in Kensington too but I can't afford it so I can't. End of.

Entirely agree with Fatdogs. Not sure why so many people think they have the right to live in some of the wealthiest parts of London. I work full time and am on a salary that would make me one of "the rich" according to Jeremy Corbyn, but there is no way I can afford to live in Kensington or Westminster. Why should those in social housing get to live in central London if ordinary working people can't afford to? Obviously key worker housing is a bit different although I have a friend who is a nurse who has a lovely 2 bed flat at a low "key-worker" rent and another dr friend who lives in 2 bed flat an hour commute away.

I am an immigrant from america, and it really surprised me to see this was the case here. We spend an absolute ton in housing benefit in this country, and there is a huge entitlement mentality that people should get to live where they want. It's inflated rents for everyone, and it removes some very good fundamental market incentives.

I do however sympathize with pretty much everyone that rents are too high in this country. I think the trouble is that housing benefit isn't a good answer to that problem. There is a supply problem, what supply there is is being bought by people who don't live here. it's interesting that the government is very open about it's pro inflation/low interest policy and I think this is at the heart of the problem.

I'd say wages aren't too low. rents are too high.

Oh phew. There is some sense left in the world and like minded posters. I was/am starting to think the whole world has gone mad.

I'm just worried that by the time I get around to having sex again they will have changed it. Maybe they have already. I dunno.

Yawn. Yet more unfounded assumptions. I don't think you have to be a Corbyn supporter (which I am not and did not vote for him) to see the gaping inequality. Nothing to do with wanting to live in Kensington - though some people have reduced the argument to this.

always the middle that are squeezed,

The super wealthy can easily move money around to avoid taxes etc and afford to pay the brightest and the best to out manouvre the tax man.

No-one wants to tackle some of the issues around social deprivation, antic social behavior etc due to the outcry that would arise.

Epic fail! This was meant to be highlighted:

Yawn. Yet another thread started by a Corbyn supporter. I'd like to live in Kensington too but I can't afford it so I can't. End of.

You had me confused there for a moment OP. 🙂 A much needed moment of levity perhaps?

Leanback halal meat is available everywhere, indeed we all eat halal now. With regard to Eritrean refugees my former cleaner was from Eritrea and is a wonderful girl. However she was hoping to go to Canada because as she put it "Chester where are all the English people". Not my words, hers.

I think far more support should be given to middle income workers who are expected to move, often leaving behind their family and support network, if they can no longer afford to live in London (because they don't qualify for housing benefit top ups or social housing) and are expected to commute for hours and at much cost. These days, London seems to be only for the very rich or the very poor, nobody else can afford to live there.

Motherifbleach and leanback so is it only the people of Kensington and Chelsea who speak their language and where they feel welcome. I bet they feel more comfortable in the most expensive area of London. Many people who for generations lived in Central London and are indigenous to London can no longer afford to live in London especially Zone 1 to 3 and indeed have been driven out. Also, if me and my family were fortunate to have survived the tragic fire where so many lost their lives I would be thanking God we were spared not demanding my rights. Many people were bombed out of their homes in WW2 we seem to have forgotten our past. Whilst I am on the subject where is the help for the victims of Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena and Borough market. The heroes of these events are still homeless and sofa surfing.

I'm not really sure why you addressed this post to me Chester. I never mentioned about new migrants and refugees being housed in areas of their choice, although I do agree it is important, especially fro unaccompanied minors, to be placed in an area they are welcomed, safe and will have contact with people of their own culture and religion and easy access to places of worship.

I said the victims of Grenfell have the right to be rehoused in Kensington, because rightly or wrongly, they have previously been housed there, have made connections in the area, go school in the area, attend a dr and dentist in the area. They should not be torn from their community due to a tragic event, that will have untold lasting effects on their physical and mental health and was the result of catastrophic government and council failure.

Of course if my children had been involved I'd be grateful they survived. Who wouldn't be? I'd also be angry. Angry that my right to safe housing for my family had been violated and damn right I'd fight to make sure my other rights were respected, for the sake of my children's well being. The last thing a child who's suffered through a traumatic event like that needs is to start a new school, be yanked away from their friends etc.

Many people who for generations lived in Central London and are indigenous to London can no longer afford to live in London especially Zone 1 to 3 and indeed have been driven out

This is a separate issue but one which needs addressing urgently. Huge swathes of zone one are owned by foreign investors who've never stepped foot in their property. This needs to stop. London can no longer be allowed to be a place for foreign billionaires to park their money. It's not big enough and it's pricing out our own wealthy.

Whilst I am on the subject where is the help for the victims of Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena and Borough market. The heroes of these events are still homeless and sofa surfing

This is just not true, at least in Manchester. I know one of the homeless men personally. He's from my hometown. My family are friendly with his family. His family would happily welcome him back, however he has already been offered housing and a job in Manchester and I wish him well with it.

The other man involved also had money raised to home him, however due to his personal problems this has proved to be harder than expected. There is help and money available to him once he feels able to accept it. Sadly, we cannot force help on him and throwing cold hard cash at him with no support in place would only worsen his situation.

I wasn't aware there were any homeless heroes in the London attacks. If there were, then I would hope they too were supported.

Again though, these are separate, unrelated incidents not remotely similar to Grenfell. The people of Manchester did not lose their homes due to government failure. If they had, then of course I would expect them to be rehoused in the same area regardless of their ethnicity, income or religion. It's the humane thing to do.

The people of Manchester did not lose their homes due to government failure.

But they did lose their lives due to it.

Roy Larner the hero of the Borough Market terrorist attack who was stabbed several times is still homeless and has not been offered anywhere to live. No you definitely making a case for the victims of Grenfell Tower to be given acces to housing in Kensington and Chelsea. As I have stated previously, if you privately rented or owned your flat in this block, despite this horrific fire and losing your home and possessions, you will probably not be offered one of the new flats that have been acquired by the Corporation of London for the victims the f Grenfell House. These are only available for the people who were in social housing. How are these people expected to rebuild their lives.

I am not aware of any area in Singapore where the English or British have a special administrative region.

Good lord. Meant Shanghai

As I have stated previously, if you privately rented or owned your flat in this block, despite this horrific fire and losing your home and possessions, you will probably not be offered one of the new flats that have been acquired by the Corporation of London for the victims the f Grenfell House

That's not correct. The council have an obligation to help any tenant who have made homeless through no fault of their own, including private renters. Of course, if they earn over a certain threshold, this help will be reduced/limited to helping them find property.

The same with homeowners, if you lose your owned home through no fault of your own, the council have a duty to house you. If you are due insurance this complicates things as you technically have the means to rehouse yourself via the insurance payout. You'd still be given temporary accommodation if you earned below the threshold to easily access deposits etc for your own temporary accommodation prior to the insurance paying out.

So motherofbleach do I understand you are saying that if you are employed despite being a victim of this tragedy you would be expected to continue working. The truth is most councils absolve themselves from helping most people. A friend was informed that as she hadn't lived in a borough for the past 5 years she could not even go on the housing list. She was advised to get a private rental property. This is the advice given by councils.

So motherofbleach do I understand you are saying that if you are employed despite being a victim of this tragedy you would be expected to continue working

I should imagine you'd be signed off sick if you needed to be but otherwise, yes, once these people have recovered physically and are mentally well enough, they should return to employment.

I was also told by the council that I could not get social housing in my town due to not having been in the area for x years. I would have been eligible for social housing in Manchester, the place I'd been living but I was able to prove strong connections to my home town and was thus offered social housing. I'd think things would be the same for your friend, since it's the law and all.

Why are you determined to disagree with everything I post? It doesn't matter anyway. I have work to do. I will return to bicker with you later if I have time

Honestly the idea that someone should be grateful because we've allowed them to flee persecution in their own country and so should accept whatever we offer them is ludicrous. They still have wishes, feelings and needs

I really don't see what is so terrible about thinking someone might be grateful for being given asylum. Nor why there should be an obligation on the host country to replicate all cultural, social and religious norms.

This is a terrible article about the Syrian refugees on the island of Bute- boiling down essentially to how awful to live somewhere rainy where you can't buy oregano. Btw that complaint was made by the writer of the article. The refugees themselves have been very quick to counter this sort of negativity.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/30/bute-refugees-dream-sun-syrian-families-resettled

My friend returned from living abroad homeless and with no money. Unfortunately the UK has such generous benefits but they are not immediately available to all only refugees or asylum seekers, etc. As for signing off sick what if you are self employed or have your own business. Where do you go then.

Roy Larner

Gratitude is really sneered at today.

Good grief, the guardian article - shock, horror
The UK resettles refugees where there is social housing immediately available rather than a waitlist
Their 'journalism' grows more suspect with each day that passes

To all of the people saying "hands off my cash I pay too much tax, and childcare and travel costs and housing are too much- well that is part of the problem! All of these should be much more accessible to all of us, and our housing costs are ridiculous. for example there is such a thing as subsidising public transport and childcare. That would help us all. And yes the highest earners may pay a lot, but they will get a lot back too - that's the way it works. And just imagine; if we had some regulation of housing so that it wasn't all sold to foreign investors and there was enough for us so that prices would come down- ah Nirvana!

Surely the thing is and has always been that for any area in the country to "work" in society you need a mix of skilled and relatively lower professionally skilled workers, and in London particularly that's going to mean at least subsidised housing; I know I definitely could not afford to live in Kensington on my salary (I'm a nurse) So a carer, cleaner, shop assistant, or minimum wage worker would I imagine struggle as well without some assistance. But they are still vital to society working, how would you fill those jobs otherwise?
Whereas a higher paid person might consider commuting, a lower paid person might not have the disposable income to commute to work. So really the only answer logically is to have a mix of skills per area and for London (and elsewhere!) That means subsidised housing.

Grenfell tower survivors should absolutely be assisted to either remain in their home area in safe subsidised housing or if they want to relocate assisted to do so. I cannot imagine the trauma they've been through & they deserve every piece of help available to make their future brighter.

Everywhere else people commute and just get on with it,often with far worse public transport. Car share,cycle,walk,bus..... I fail to see why London needs special treatment.