To have thrown DH out for pushing DS? End of the line or am I overreacting?

[mumbanator]

DH tries very hard, dedicated daddy to two lively challenging sons. I work late on a Friday and come in at 8pm. He knows I dislike it when they go out to the park/friends houses (with him) until 8/9pm a) as I haven't seen them all day and like them to be there when I come home and b) when they come in they are unbearably tired and ridiculous and I have recently asked him to ensure they're in from half 7 from now on and winding down. Tonight he returned with them at 21:45 - he knew I'd be cross and his mobile phone had died so I didn't even know where they were - they'd gone for a meal. I was upset and livid but tried to keep fairly calm (had been in for nearly 2 hours not knowing where they were, no note although I'd assumed they were safe) but a row quickly ensued. DH said it was their fault for not coming home when he asked. I said he was the grown up and he was entirely responsible. DS1 started putting in his twopence - DH was shouting and clipped his ear (but whether intentionally or not, barely made any contact, DS1 didn't seem to notice) and then pushed him back so he staggered back a couple of steps (completely unbothered and unharmed) and DH continued to shout. I told DH to leave immediately and not return tonight and bolted the doors. DSs are both fine. There is no history of any abuse of any type but I don't see how he can be fit to parent if this can possibly occur. Sorry if not enough info posted, I can't think clearly. So - AIBU to have thrown him out while I consider things and have I massively overreacted? Does this happen in normal family life? It never happened in mine - or is he BU and needs to sort himself out. Is this the end of our relationship? Is it child abuse? Would you relationship with your DH be over if he did this? Thank you to anyone with a similar experience or advice.

I've never read the book, which I intend to remedy. Very good it is, the Handmaid series.

Oh yes, I reported Beyond's charming PM. Looks like she scarpered immediately afterwards though, taking her Bumper Book of Swearwords with her First time I've ever been called a wank stain on here, or anywhere!

Oh yeah, I know it's rude, I think some of the horrible insulting comments to the OP, which did come from a default misogynistic position, deserved rudeness tbh.

I wasn't really trying to change the views of those people who posted like that, because if you're carrying such internalised misogyny that you automatically think the explanation for a woman's behaviour is that she's controlling and manipulative, you're unlikely to listen to someone telling you it ain't necessarily so.

But pointing out that it's handmaidenry, is useful for other people who haven't clocked the automatic misogyny of that attitude. It's a useful shorthand, rude though it is. I don't mind being rude to people who are downright rude themselves, tbh.

And yes, the current series is brilliantly done, beautifully filmed.

Beyomd the pm should get you banned hopefully.

I think the op has taken on board that she's being a bit controlling and unreasonable and the dad is perhaps prone to being the 'fun parent' who throws in the towel when the kids need sensible discipline.

This isn't unusual with couples and can be worked on with sensible compromises. I don't see any major problems here just family life really.

Op sounds very sensible and hopefully her and her dh can talk it through.

I think it's really important posters post on the actual information posted and not come from a place of pre judgment or self projection or entrenched views of either women are always right and men wrong or Visa Versa.

Calling other people 'handmaidens' because they have a different view to you, that's allowed here you know and the op asked for views is daft.

Here seems a good place to post the wottaboutthemenz version of the Handmaid's Tale

Arf

That version is top quality Basil 😂

What bothers me A LOT about all this is having a row in front of the DCs. And from what the OP later said, the DS was trying to explain that they went for a meal. That means that the poor DS was attempting to stop his parents arguing and was feeling that he had to stand up for his father being 'told off' by his mother in front of him.

This is inexcusable and bloody bang out of order. OP you need to control yourself. You put your wants first in just as bad a way as you accuse your DH of doing. Do you honestly imagine that it is only physical abuse which matters?

gamer - good! Are you enjoying it

Of course, it's brutal and disturbing. Just the way I like my telly.

I hare 'handmaiden' as an insult, it is passive aggressive but my god, pm people those messages, what is wrong with you?

Calling other people 'handmaidens' because they have a different view to you, that's allowed here you know

And at no point did I call for basils posts to be deleted. Just pointed out my opinion that it tends to have the opposite effect - it alienates and entrenches people's views rather than challenging them.

But pointing out that it's handmaidenry, is useful for other people who haven't clocked the automatic misogyny of that attitude. It's a useful shorthand, rude though it is. I don't mind being rude to people who are downright rude themselves, tbh

Like I said it was pretty mild compared with a shit load of other comments on the thread.

However the comments that op was controlling didn't spring out of nowhere. I think if she had a chance to rewrite the opening post she would probably do it in a slightly different way.
Calling people handmaidens just looked like a knee jerk reaction to a lack of support for a female poster (again IMO).

The comments about her being controlling, are a kneejerk misogyny thing though.

It's a word that MRA's use about women all the time: we are controlling if we expect them to put the kids to bed on time on a school night, we're controlling when we " withhold sex" (IE when we don't fancy a fuck and are labouring under the delusion that we don't owe one to the man we're with), we're controlling if we expect the person we live with to clean a kitchen to a hygienic standard, we're controlling if we don't immediately agree to move abroad where we will be unemployed, so that our husband can further his career.

When used about women, the word controlling is often used to describe her expecting be allowed to have a view and an input into her own life. And it seems to me that a lot of people are ignoring the bits in her posts, which make it fairly clear that her DH's behaviour impacts on her life so therefore she's entitled to have a view on.

To clarify, when I see a bunch of women doing that, calling another woman controlling about her own life, I do think they've drunk the men's rights cool-aid.

Pop psychology has become increasingly popular to justify all sorts of crap. The concept of controlling behaviour, while being valid, is used against women all the time to justify men's bad behaviour. And lots of women have swallowed the way it's used, without question. Because of internalised misogyny. It needs sayin'

AskBasil I completely disagree with your reasoning, she is trying to control someone elses life too.

But I think from your posts that you are enjoying goading to some extent, I actually have some sympathy for the person who called you passive aggressive.

It's a sneering superiority that exudes from posts on here, that some people just don't understand misogyny and are a bit thick and uneducated, otherwise they would agree with the OP.

The OP has been very polite to all responses whether they agreed with her or not.

Because of internalised misogyny. It needs sayin

Not disagreeing with you just don't like the approach. Often when people resort to ad hominem attacks it means they've lost the arguement or just can't be arsed engaging.

The comments about her being controlling, are a kneejerk misogyny thing though

Possibly - all I'm saying is that labelling people as handmaidens isn't going to help. It might actually make them more entrenched in their views.

I doubt we'll agree on this, and that's absolutely fine.

calling another woman controlling about her own life

The point was people thought she was trying to control someone else's life.

How is the OP being controlling?

Because she wants the children in at a stated time?

In that case isn't the OP's husband being equally controlling by wanting to keep them out until a certain time?

AND THEN HE CUFFED AND PUSHED HIS CHILD.

It's a word that MRA's use about women all the time:
Excuse me? I thought the op was controlling.
I also thought her dh behaviour was inexcusable. I don't think the op brought the behaviour on.
I'm not a mra just because i happen to disagree

Irritating that he didn't text you before to say they were going out for a meal. But I find it astonishing that you 'don't like' your dh taking his children to the park or to friends on a Friday evening when you're working late, simply because it suits your needs to have them home ready and waiting for you to get in. How about your kids' right to spend time with dad?

Stopnamechanging, I missed the passive aggressive insult, because tbh I just don't care. I wasn't goading, I was fucking annoyed. Women are constantly gaslighted about wanting an equal relationship with the man they are with. I don't know if the OP is controlling. She may well be. But it's not immediaetly obvious from her posts, unless you approach her posts with the attitude that any expectation that a woman wanting stuff done in a reasonable way, is controlling. There was a string of posts which did a massive mental jump to her being controlling by focussing on one bit of the post without reading the other bits. Yes, sure I sneered at that, it merits a bloody sneer IMO.

The people who say "she was trying to control someone else's life" - that is very much dependent on how you see it, isn't it. I don't see that, what I see is someone who is trying to negotiate equal parenting with someone who believes he is doing equal parenting by only doing the fun bits. If you think it's controlling of her to want him to either take the consequences of doing the fun stuff (cleaning up the mess afterwards) or stop doing it, then you are buying into the narrative that it's controlling to expect the people you live with, to pay some mind to how their behaviour affects you. But IME it's only ever women who are told this, not men.

I didn't accuse you of being a MRA, did I Kali?

I am pointing out that this is a MRA narrative making its way into the mainstream and women should be bloody cautious and questioning when they see it used. Of course some women are ludicrously over-controlling. But allowing the narrative of the controlling woman, to take shape without questioning it or analysing how it is used in the real world, enables it to become the default view whenever a situation like this arises. And I'm against that, that's all.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/revolutionarycombustion.wordpress.com/2013/02/04/feminists-using-misogynist-insults-toward-other-women/amp/

i've seen that article before and I disagree with the premise, which is that using a specific insult which recognises a specific phenomenon (in this case women throwing other women under the bus for male approval) is wrong, because all women in patriarchy are fucked.

Yes, it's a hurtful insult..

So is calling someone a racist.

"We get called racist for raising our concerns about immigration, blah di blah. The media have got to stop calling people racist".

Actually no, you don't, you get called racist when you express racist sentiments. If you do that, people have the right to call you a racist and that is upsetting. What do you, not upset someone because you recognise that the class hierarchy has fucked them and so they've adopted racist ideas without really thinking them through?

Same principle IMO. I don't see the term handmaiden as any more significant than "Stepford wife. It expresses a real thing. Lots of people have never heard it but when they do, they recognise a phenomenon which up to now they didn't, because it didn't have a name. Like mansplaining, or cocklodger.

Basil, just wanted to give a little wave of support here - you are entirely right on all fronts.

Can't BELIEVE the reaction the OP had had here, getting a bollocking for wanting her children home at a reasonable hour (NOT sat waiting for her all evening in their best bibs and tuckers as others have suggested) or at very least if they aren't to (a) be informed and (b) get some help getting them to bed, and this being construed as her being controlling, even abusive (!!!!!), and a bitch in need of therapy or divorcing, whilst the husband who struck their child is let off the hook with a cursory "well that was certainly not on, but if YOU hadn't..." etc....

My head is fucking spinning. If I came home and found no kids and no partner, no note or text to say where they had gone, found OH to be uncontactable, and they came back hours past their bedtime tired and irritable and I was expected to talk them down off the ledge and get them to sleep, damn right is be pretty fucking frosty as well!

And I agree with multiple previous posters - if he had cuffed and shoved the OP, noone would be brushing it off. Even if your disciplinary tactics include violence, I would have thought this should be administered in cold blood according to a pre-agreed system, not delivered as hoc in the heat of the moment because he felt aggrieved and put upon! He's meant to be the bloody adult!

Yes, it's a hurtful insult.. so is calling someone a racist

Well again if you are trying to engage in a debate with someone it might be better to say. "What you've just said is racist."
Instead of "you are a racist"

Tackling the behaviour means you are much more likely to have a decent discussion with you and maybe persuade them otherwise.
Calling them a racist is pretty much just dismissing them.

It runs the risk that people don't feel able to discuss their concerns (which are false but they are their concerns) for fear of being labelled a racist. And we end up with Brexit.

I voted Remain by the way, still pissed off about Brexit

basil You've implied the posters that found her controlling are simply mras though or 'handmaidens'
I found some of her behaviour controlling.
I certainly didn't think it excused his behaviour though. There was no excuse.
I keep seeing this
wanting her children home at a reasonable hour
Who are you to say what is a reasonable hour?
I certainly did not think it was a bad time to be out for a weekend, neither did other posters.
I wouldn't like to be told what time i need to be home by anyone.
I do however think he should have text, left a note or phonecall.