To have thrown DH out for pushing DS? End of the line or am I overreacting?

[mumbanator]

DH tries very hard, dedicated daddy to two lively challenging sons. I work late on a Friday and come in at 8pm. He knows I dislike it when they go out to the park/friends houses (with him) until 8/9pm a) as I haven't seen them all day and like them to be there when I come home and b) when they come in they are unbearably tired and ridiculous and I have recently asked him to ensure they're in from half 7 from now on and winding down. Tonight he returned with them at 21:45 - he knew I'd be cross and his mobile phone had died so I didn't even know where they were - they'd gone for a meal. I was upset and livid but tried to keep fairly calm (had been in for nearly 2 hours not knowing where they were, no note although I'd assumed they were safe) but a row quickly ensued. DH said it was their fault for not coming home when he asked. I said he was the grown up and he was entirely responsible. DS1 started putting in his twopence - DH was shouting and clipped his ear (but whether intentionally or not, barely made any contact, DS1 didn't seem to notice) and then pushed him back so he staggered back a couple of steps (completely unbothered and unharmed) and DH continued to shout. I told DH to leave immediately and not return tonight and bolted the doors. DSs are both fine. There is no history of any abuse of any type but I don't see how he can be fit to parent if this can possibly occur. Sorry if not enough info posted, I can't think clearly. So - AIBU to have thrown him out while I consider things and have I massively overreacted? Does this happen in normal family life? It never happened in mine - or is he BU and needs to sort himself out. Is this the end of our relationship? Is it child abuse? Would you relationship with your DH be over if he did this? Thank you to anyone with a similar experience or advice.

If it's your house you can get a legal restraining order from preventing his return. But make no mistake, throwing him out is a really serious deal, not just the results of a tantrum.

You may need to accept the fact that he thinks being thrown out of his home is a step too far and has no desire to return, however justified you feel your actions were. Let him move on and you can start changing the locks.

People really are keen to defend this man who put the blame for failing to bring the children home at a reasonable hour in.the children, then shouted at and shoved one of them. Saying 'I quite often accidentally knock into my kids or gently place my hand on them to guide them' isn't relevant. Do you shout at them and push them in anger? Because if you do then you are also abusing your kids.
I'd the dad is failing to get the children to bed at a reasonable hour and is pushing them then the op needs to be take control for the good of her kids.

I think your lads will take the perspective that when dad has fun with us mum gets jealous and shouts.

If you were a man posting that you get 'livid' when wifey doesn't do what you tell her with the kids you would get very different responses.

To be honest you both should be ashamed of yourselves for rowing about nothing really and upsetting your kids.

They will feel it's their fault and that's ufosgivabke.

You need to co parent.

Your lads will be copying your joint outbursts or temper tantrums soon and you will both be to blame.

Grow up.

Think you're both wrong.
No excuse for what your dh did, at all.
Your ds did nothing to warrant that.
Your dh was wrong.
You do sound controlling though.
i wouldn't like my dp dictating what time he wanted me home and then getting angry if i was late
On friday, no i don't think that time was late. They were out having a meal together, hardly running the streets.
I used to always go out with young family members to later than that.
They've grown up to be very respectable members of society

People really are keen to defend this man who put the blame for failing to bring the children home at a reasonable hour in.
Who says what is a reasonable hour?
Many have said that this time on a Friday night would be fine for their kids
I agree

I read it as Dad was moving son out of the way. I do that with mine on occasion, it's not malicious or with the intent to hurt. I have shouted at them to move and then when they don't, physically put them somewhere safe.

I don't agree that he "messed up" as a pp put it. He took his sons out for dinner and got back late. That's not messing up, it's being a parent. Or has he messed up because he's done something totally reasonable that his wife disapproves of?

I also think that the Dad knew OP was pissed off as she didn't talk to him at all, just the children - so he tried to talk to her to explain and the row kicked off. She engineered the whole shouting match to make it clear she didn't approve. Manipulative and unacceptable behaviour.

I agree OP sounds controlling and dictatorial. I don't dictate what DH does with our children when I'm at work and he doesn't tell me what I can't do when he's working. If I were him I would want to leave her to be honest.

Blimey. I wish my dh would take ds out for a few hours and leave me to it. YABU op.

"She engineered the whole shouting match to make it clear she didn't approve. Manipulative and unacceptable behaviour. "

So she's to blame for him not being able to wait to discuss it, till he'd calmed the kids down and put them to bed?

This level of misogyny used to be laughed out of Mumsnet

" But this MN "all men bad, all women good" mantra is ridiculous."

Oh yeah, that mantra is really in evidence on this thread, isn't it.

Catch yourself on.

Recognising systemic misogyny isn't characterising "all men bad, all women good" and I suggest you read the posts properly if that's what you've taken from this.

So much sensible advice here. We have only spoken briefly and I have asked and listened but he has made it clear that when I ask him to do things HE feels like he's being told - that isn't what I want at all and was never my intention so this needs serious attention - this must have been causing long-term resentment and hence his response last night. We need to work out how to co-parent as equals with true consideration of everyone. We haven't discussed the pushing etc much yet as he is still feeling very defensive- I suspect tonight when he's calmed down he will acknowledge this was very wrong but clearly hadn't seen it as the aggressive physical act I did when I went into mama bear mode as one PP described it as above. I had already felt like he was struggling a little and last month suggested a parenting course which we are doing in a few weeks - together. Feeling quite emotional now, hope we can work it all out.

It's not misogyny to call someone out on controlling, manipulative behaviour. Giving someone the silent treatment to demonstrate your displeasure at their actions is ridiculous and guaranteed to prove a defensive response from the DH.

It's also ridiculous to try and tell another adult what they can and can't do with their own children! Why on earth do they have to be all ready and waiting for OP when she gets in from work? She could have chosen to come in, make a drink, sit down, read, MN, have some peace and quiet, then give the children hugs when they came in and asked if they'd had a nice time. She chose to seethe, wind herself up, give her DH the silent treatment until he defended himself and then blames the resulting row on him.

From what you have written, you sound very controlling op, I couldn't live with another adult dictating to me like that with my own children.

I don't think that a parenting course will solve this but I hope that things get better for you both.

It's not that I have ever wanted to dictate, it's that having witnessed and been left to deal with tricky childcare situations time and time again I feel it's better to actively avoid them happening in the first place - I see it as our responsibility not to create that situation for them. If the boys routinely came home happy and tired I wouldn't be too bothered but it's interesting to see how some people perceive that - the same way as DH.

Basil it's the impression you're giving, despite OPs negative, controlling behaviour (which, in fairness she has admitted and is going to do something about) you're adamant that only her husband is at fault which just isn't true. They're both as bad as each other.

Well done op - you are dealing with this in a sensible way.

Ignore those who haven't read the full thread.

Yes hic - this is better discussed and agreed- truly agreed- in advance with both of us buying into the plans isn't it?

If my DH took the DC out at least once a week and handed them over to me to deal with after working them up to being over-tired and hysterical, while he lolled on the sofa and I'd just come home from a day at work, I'd ask could he please bring them home earlier too. It sounds like this is a repeat problem that the OP tried to deal with proactively. Now she's being called 'controlling' and accused of throwing 'hissy fits'.

Shoving an 8 year old and clipping them around the ear isn't great either. It sounds like the child wasn't phased, so either this is something that happens a lot from the DH and the DS is used to it, or it was a light flick and a light shove that he didn't notice. Only the OP can tell which.

having witnessed and been left to deal with tricky childcare situations time and time again I feel it's better to actively avoid them happening in the first place
He is not behaving like an adult, him telling you " you tell him what to do" is sort of PA in itself, making excuses for his behaviour & blaming it on you.
Only you know if you are making the rules & being bossy,
or simply know what is best for the DC & trying to get the idiot on board.

Your kids probably see you verbally abusing your DH all the time and are mimicking your abuse.

Get some help.

mix I think I am doing both of those things simultaneously but need to ease up on the former and we agree the rules together.
mysterious ds1 is stocky and quite physical (throws himself into cuddles etc) so it is possible that dh knew a substantial push would be required to get him to take a step back - but in the context of his shouting though (no one else was shouting) my instinct was to tell him to leave.

groupie I am pretty sure they don't but along what sort of lines are you thinking the verbal abuse is?

All mumsnet parents seem to be perfect parents.They never shout because that's verbal abuse. They never lose their temper and push out, because that is physical abuse. In their perfect relationships one mistake in an otherwise fairly blameless standard parenting journey is sufficient to end a relationship, even though having the bewilderment of divorcing parents out if the blue is likely just as damaging to a child. Fwiw both myself and my partner have, in 16 years as parents, made a few mistakes. I have smacked out at my kids on 2 or 3 occasions. My husband has shouted and once called one of my kids a fucking idiot. On each of these few occasions we have talked it through, apologised sincerely to the child involved, on the idiot occasion my dh stayed away overnight and sent an apology in writing. The children are generally well parented. They are not "abused children". They have had experiences of bad parenting occasionally because we are bloody well human and we make mistakes, and sometimes they are bad ones. Apparently on mumsnet an otherwise fabulous parent who makes one mistake in the heat if the moment, which leaves the child unhurt, is sufficient to end a marriage. Fucks sake. You must all be polishing your halos.

He was wrong to clip & push.

I agree that they don't have to be in & waiting for Op, but I'm wondering if he stays out to annoy Op?

He could let her know where they are so that she could join them?

Certainly he shouldn't be winding them up & then leaving Op to do bed & bath.

Sounds as if communication & maybe some compromise is all that's needed.

I generally despise the "mother/wife = boss" attitude, and won't put up with it myself, but I don't think that's entirely what's going on here. You say this happens often, and that you get left with the shitwork when they're back? If one parent's decisions are negatively affecting the other, I think it's perfectly acceptable to put boundaries in place. Added to that he didn't tell you where they were (my DW would - rightly - be furious about that part alone) and you are right to be pissed off.

Throwing him out was OTT I would argue, but he shouldn't have been heavy handed with your son (it does not sound like abuse or violence to me, but as with every other poster, I wasn't there), so I can see that it was a situation that just got out of hand quickly - fault on both sides, but rather more so on his side. No one's a saint!!

Hope you're all doing OK.