To wonder if they'll ever have children?

[user1497444078]

We met a married couple 5yrs ago and have become really close friends. They both have high paid jobs, are in their early thirties and enjoy the finer things (nice holidays, designer clothes etc). He is desperate to start a family a bed she isn't but conceded they would start trying after a few more years of nice holidays.

They intended to start trying two yrs ago but now every January she books them a holiday to celebrate her birthday (end of Oct) which wipes out any chance of trying that yr.

I think she's worried they will struggle financially as they have a huge mortgage (London area), don't have either parents nearby for childcare and ultimately would need to limit holiday/designer clothes spend, which would all be difficult with one wage. The husband has started to express these fears and he used to say 'when we have children' which has now been replaced with 'if we ever have children'.

We've just had our first DC and in contrast live in an area where cost of living is significantly lower, have reasonable wages and are surrounded by parents/siblings all willing to help with childcare.

I would love for them to fall pregnant and know they would be amazing parents (despite her reservations) but that's easy for me to say as we've had it fairly easy.

Has anyone been in a similar position to our friends and what advise could you offer that says they can have a family and retain some of their current lifestyle?

That is some ego you have there OP. You really think that if you put your case forward they'll disregard whatever it is that is the reason for their not having children so far?

If they wanted you to know in more depth, they would tell you, really they would. Can you not accept that?

None of your business.

umpteen if you actually paid attention you would see that: a) it was two responses I thanked and b) they actually said I was BU just like everyone else. However, the difference was they weren't responding with a biased, knee-jerk, jump on the offensive because someone might broach a subject with a different level of sensitivity than me, kind of mentality.

But good contribution to the discussion.

lyingwitchin irony is your ego is preventing you from seeing past your own perspective.

I simply wanted advice to show how you can see past finance as a major barrier to having children. If they could see a solution past that and still decide no children fair enough. But as a friend I want no road to be a deadend for them, that way the final decision will be whatever is right for them, as opposed to 'we would have if it wasn't for xyz'

What's it to you?

I openly discuss these issues with some of my friends, because we have that kind of relationship. My closest friends are a married couple and we discuss their plans for children and financial issues, sure. But there's a difference between discussing stuff and trying to force a pov or interfering. Honestly it sounds like there are boundary issues here.

The fact the (desperate for a baby) husband is asking you to "big up pregnancy" to a (not keen on a baby) wife is really inappropriate. They should not be putting you in the middle of their relationship problems and using you as a go-between. And the husband needs to respect his wife's wishes not attempt to convince her otherwise.

If the wife is intentionally booking expensive holidays many months in advance as a way of 'protecting' herself from having to get pregnant, well that is just disturbing.

It sounds like they are just on totally different pages regarding wanting kids at all, and they need to sit down (maybe in therapy) and deal with that, because despite her saying she'd be open to it it really does sound like she does not want kids but feels pressured.

My post was referring to the fact that it appears that they are not on the same page.

He's eager to start a family (he said to 'big up' pregnancy), she is less so (says wants to focus on career). That's why I said to stay out of it. You don't want him using the typical statement of 'no right time so just do it' and the joys of children to put pressure on her if she's truly not ready. If she asks you directly, feel free to share your wisdom. If he asks you in front of her, say having children is wonderful but that it needs to be a mutual decision 'when the time is right'.

Why is seeing past finance even what you want? Your friend has said she is not maternal she's not wanting kids at least right now. Why are you colluding with her husband to talk her around? Sounds like you want a maternity buddy.

Respect that your friend isn't stupid and doesn't need to be shown the way, she's already made choices based on her own information.

You should definitely invite them around for dinner, and all discuss it together. You could then make useful suggestions with a flip chart of helpful positions for 'falling' pregnant and offer to test her temperature and cervical mucus every morning.

OP it's one thing playing the happy aunt figure when you can leave them with mum at the end of the day. Having the ultimate responsibility for them 24/7 is an entirely different. And while there are people who didn't have children and regretted it, there are also parents who had children and regretted it.

Of course many people do make the best of their circumstances when they find themselves or their partner pregnant unexpectedly, so obviously it's perfectly possible to have children and be good, or even great, parents without it being something you would have chosen to do. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't have had great lives without children. On average, research suggests having children makes people less happy, especially in their relationship with their partner. It's not something you should talk someone into or out of.

Anyway, as I said, I don't think you can really tell them they can keep their lifestyle and have children. Children change everything. We can still afford our fancy holidays but they aren't anything like they were because children want different things from holidays and you can't do the same things when you are responsible for them. If things like that are important to your friends, they're right to think children probably aren't for them.

You're in that insufferable baby fog having just had one.

You are so all knowing and powerful and your life is the best.

I may never have children and one of friends who recently became a parent said to me so what you can play with mine now

As if playing with a friends kid is enough happiness to never have my own.

Mind your own damn business and live your life.

Its not a taboo subject for them and they have spoken to you about it. So you are fully aware that she doesn't want children at least not now and he does. They are both your friends but you want advice on how to gang up on a woman who is unsure about having children and convince her to go through 9 months of pregnancy, followed by breastfeeding and childrearing, and the career bombshell that motherhood is? Why? These things can break up a marriage. How would you feel if you 'convinced' her that motherhood is all roses, but she is utterly miserable and feels forced into it? You can carry on with your life. It might end their marriage. How would you feel then?

**I simply wanted advice to show how you can see past finance as a major barrier to having children. If they could see a solution past that and still decide no children fair enough

YOU don't need the advice though.

If THEY decide THEY need advice to this effect, THEY can seek it THEMSELVES.

I'm sorry for all the capitals. I just worked a twelve hour shift without even stopping for a pee... my brain's addled to say the least.

It seems to her, finance is a major barrier though. She's not stupid. They have a huge mortgage, good jobs and an expensive lifestyle. Either one of them will have to give up a high flying career and be at home I wonder if it will be him, since he's so desperate for a baby or pay through the nose for childcare. Either way that's half a salary gone, a huge mortgage to pay and a huge cutback on everything they enjoy just to get by. It sounds like she just doesn't want a baby.

Oh behave

"How would you feel if you 'convinced' her that motherhood is all roses, but she is utterly miserable and feels forced into it? "

^^ This.

FGS
Why is it your business? It isn't.

Love the responses in this thread.

freeNiki if you're having difficulty conceiving but again ur projecting ur own feelings on this subject which is entirely different from that of my friends and I.

Hardly all knowing and powerful if I'm here seeking advice, again this comment is an emotional response so try and step back and be more open minded.

Our friends our part my life and we happily discuss this business and other things as we're not delicate and have no taboos.

riversleep if she doesnt want children that is just as likely to potentially break the marriage up as if you know your partner has strong feelings on wanting children and you marry whilst giving he impression in time it is a strong likelihood. Unless u think someone should forgo strong paternal instincts to keep OH happy? How do you feel about that? if roles were reversed u would say LTB I bet.

In any case we were pretty honest in that the first trimester was very difficult was us, the labour was horrendous and the first few weeks have felt at times like wanting to put my head through a brick wall. Im acutely aware these aren't selling parenthood but we don't sugar cost anything and are open and honest with our friends.

GeillisTheWitch - if she's journalist, she can't spell advice!!

OP if someone wants children enough for it to be a deal breaker for them and their partner doesn't want children I would certainly advise leaving over suggesting they have children. But there is no way I would suggest the person who is against it is a bastard.

I think you should also bear in mind how much greater the cost of children is likely to be to the woman than her partner. I don't agree with tricking or coercing men into fatherhood, but ganging up on a woman is way worse to my mind, because biologically and socially her life will be impacted to a far greater extent.

broken no it's not your friends business to discuss wanting/not wanting children to you.... clearly

But as has been stated numerous times this is a subject we've discussed with our friends on several occasions, and has never been awkward or overstepping the mark in nature. How difficult is the notion some ppl are comfortable enough to discuss this with their close friends?

Again if you could put your own feelings aside and try to open your mind to see things from a different view point.

boom think we were typing responses in close succession, as my previous message outlined all the difficult parts of parenthood we have encountered so far and have been frank with them both about.

I'm in complete agreement against coercing anyone into anything. I have all the love for my friends and their happiness is paramount. My intention was to be imformative on all options as opposed to pursuasive.

I'll certainly be more conscious on future discussion to ensure I'm not subconsciously being passive aggressive.

On a side note lol to all the ppl who think I'm a journalist, I sucked at English which is evident. Actually scientific analyst hence the data driven, information is power angle I'm plugging.

Could it be that she is unable to conceive but doesn't want to tell you?

Why do you care so much? It doesn't sound like she wants children. That's her business, nothing you should be concerning yourself with. This is a weird post.