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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To remind you of the protest march in London on July 1st?

774 replies

explodingkittens · 15/06/2017 20:23

People's Assembly

For those of us who are sick and tired and angry and devastated.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
fayre123 · 20/06/2017 12:09

To those that think the demonstration is undemocratic and a waste of time, I always like to ask if you're glad women have the vote? Because women didn't get suffrage by obeying their leaders, they had to protest again and again in various ways in order to win basic rights that men already had.

Politics for me doesn't just equal party politics. Democracy isn't this abstract thing that takes place in parliament. Politics and democracy happen on the streets, and that's the most important place for it to happen for ordinary people like us. Demonstrating opinion through manifestations of people with the same belief is vital in a healthy democracy.

The Torys didn't simply win. They didn't win a majority, not enough to form a government even! That doesn't, by law, give them authority to form government. If they partner with the DUP, they will have serious questions to ask as DUP beliefs are at odds even with the Torys beliefs (deny global warming, homophobic, anti-abortion, etc.). This is not what the people who voted Tory voted for.

The Torys have been unable to form a gov thus far with DUP. They have been unable to form coherent plans for Brexit negotiations. They have served a government that has handed out cuts to local councils such as Kensington and Chelsea, and encouraged privatisation and out-sourcing. Profit was behind the Grenfell Tower tragedy. Kensington and Chelsea is the richest borough in one of the richest countries, and under the Tories the gap between the rich and the poor is widening. Social security is being taken away, our social democracy is deteriorating.

Millions of people are suffering due to cuts to libraries and local services which are vital for our children. To belittle those who are passionate about the society we live in and say that they are denying democracy and winging is pathetic. Democracy is what it is today because of demonstrations, outrage and passion. If you want a totally capitalist-corporatoin-mcdonald-lowtax-nohealthcare-nocommunity place to live, welcome to Trumpland.

We are standing up for England and saying no to what Trump stands for, no to May's close friendship with Trump, no to public sector cuts, no to dementia tax, and yes for universal free childcare, yes to free school meals, yes to universal education, yes to employment protection in the face of zero hour contracts, yes to re-nationalisation of the worse performing train contractor in the history of the UK (Southern- GTL), yes to corporation tax.

I'm happy to see this subject being talked about on Mumsnet as it is an issue that overwhelmingly effects our babies future :) I know that coaches are being organised from different cities to help people get there too.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 12:13

Good post Fayre

I'm not sure it's possible to discuss however. When the fundlemental principle of marching is disagreed with its not really a discussion.Sad

It's an onslaught

Headofthehive55 · 20/06/2017 12:23

More people voted for the Tories than Labour.
More people voted for leaving the EU than staying.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 12:25

Head you said the majority. Most people did not vote Tory. Fact

This is an anti austerity march. EU ref posts are that way >

derxa · 20/06/2017 12:28

We are standing up for England Well that's me out then Grin

CrossWordSalad · 20/06/2017 12:29

When the ferverent anti marchers show sources from a paper other TG Fail etc that would on your view show a more robust political analysis. They haven't. Touche

Grin
everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 12:32

You see Fayre

It's just a shame they can't be arsed to do anything themselves. Not one person has said they are open minded enough to come. And must are at best illogical and at worst down right insulting

I will see you there tho. Must write my banner soon.

Headofthehive55 · 20/06/2017 12:34

Do you think cuts ever have a positive impact?

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 12:36

Yes. To the Tory majority. Very positive. Hopefully that will happen again

If you feel they have surely it's for you to evidence that not me

Headofthehive55 · 20/06/2017 12:39

You cannot assume that lib dem supporters are in favour of labour. They could be equally against may as jc.

NerrSnerr · 20/06/2017 12:40

'Not one person has said they are open minded enough to come'

I'm personally against this march because of the impact on the emergency services who are already stretched to the max. We need change but in my own opinion this is not the right way at present. It'll go how all others do, if it's peaceful the media mainly ignore it and will be quickly forgotten and if there's any trouble the media will love it and there'll be headlines about the evil lefties (weeing on war memorials, throwing fire extinguishers off buildings springs to mind).

It does not mean I am doing nothing, and I imagine other people against this march are doing nothing either. Just because people don't want to try and change things the same way as you doesn't mean they are not doing other stuff.

Good luck to everyone marching, I hope it stays peaceful and the police get to use up some of their well deserved annual leave soon

OhYouBadBadKitten · 20/06/2017 12:44

Funnily enough Head I voted Lib Dem in the last election. I'm still going on the march. it isn't a party political march.

Headofthehive55 · 20/06/2017 12:49

So cuts to running a funded group that no one goes or wants is a bad thing?
My point is cuts are not always bad. To think like that is a very fixed mindset.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 12:51

Peeing on war memorials. How very emotive of you.

There will be nurses teachers fire fighters etc attending they are also our services. All the marches I've ever been on the police look they enjoy it. Unless it's raining ofcourse.

I think you should be campaigning to stop Saturday football matches too. Or are they an OK use of resources? Pubs on a Friday night at kick out time? Marathons. Concerts. All require police presence. How about carnivals?

That argument doesn't work

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 12:55

Head. Find one. I bet every single cut affects a sector of our society. Evifencevone that doesn't

I'll help with one example
Sure start www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/02/sure-start-centres-300-closed-since-2010

It's ok. Only affects poor and vulnerable families and children. Probably wouldn't vote Tory anyway

NerrSnerr · 20/06/2017 13:01

Ever I respect your reasons to march but I have my reasons why I choose not to. My job is one of the ones you list too so I know about cuts. I want the same things as you i really do- I am personally choosing to try and implement change from a local level, getting involved in local politics.

I wasn't using the weeing on war memorials as a way to have a go at you, I was using it as an example as why the press will fuck over the people on the march at the first given opportunity. I can't believe you'd disagree with that?

CrossWordSalad · 20/06/2017 14:00

It's just a shame they can't be arsed to do anything themselves. Not one person has said they are open minded enough to come

Everyone who isn't going on the march does nothing and is not open-minded Confused

Headofthehive55 · 20/06/2017 14:01

Yes the libraries one for starters.
Long opening hours meant that when we went down we rarely saw anyone. Now with much shorter concentrated hours, the chances are we meet others in in passing. Many of us have commented on how much it's better - there is a buzz about the place where there never was before. It was an unexpected effect - but a good one for isolated people.
Others have been the reduction in street lighting. Much better for your health rather than have a neon lamp glaring into your bedroom all night. Less light pollution. Less waste. And no increase in crime here.
Sometimes there are unexpected benefits.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 14:01

Cross Don't worry I was only referring to those naysayers on this thread who are so passionate about my rights and curtailing the democratic right to vote

Good try tho

makeourfuture · 20/06/2017 14:02

I will be there ever!!!

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 14:11

The libraries? There has been a massive campaign against this. Our children's literacy is at staks. Access in poor areas to books. It's not just for people to bump into each other I'm afraid

I think your point exactly illustrates why some people don't see austerity as an issue. It doesn't impact them so therefore no impact

speakupforlibraries.org/

www.voicesforthelibrary.org.uk/the-story-so-far/reasons-for-public-libraries/

Residents of the area around Grenfell were complaining that their local library had been closed. Reducing access for the poor

CrossWordSalad · 20/06/2017 14:15

Your arrogance is quite breath-taking ever and you are really not helping your cause, but do carry on.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 14:15

I will agree 're street lighting however but that was also to meet environmental targets.

It's not the same as cutting access to services or resources in our services just to save money hang the impact. E.g. 20k police reduction prison staff. I could go on. These services are on their knees and need our help

Headofthehive55 · 20/06/2017 15:53

My point was that cuts are not always bad - and yes one of the functions of a public space it to encourage a community feel. I.e. Talking to one another. It's not just about books.
As for the lights, well ours are back on...because someone decided they were cuts. None of my neighbours wants this.
Sometimes cuts are prudent spending. Sensible organised well thought out measures. Some cuts I don't agree with. not all of us would spend money in the same way and that's my point. Unfortunately there seems to be a war cry that denotes cuts as inherently bad - whereas I am more measured in that respect.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 17:32

But it is inherently bad. Changing and adjusting budgets should always be done. And always are. Moving money from one department to another etc. All public functions have to apply for budgets based on estimates. These have been ripped up

Cutting under the guise of austerity is a political doctrine which has caused untold damage to the infrastructure of our country and its poor. One example is not going to prove it isn't.

There is no getting away from that by proving that cutting lights is environmentally sound.

Grenfell aftermath will show how our country has treated it's poor over the last 7 years. And it's services. Our NHS is on its knees. You do know that?