To be very worried about this behaviour?

[poopsqueak]

I am worried about my daughters behavioural changes over the past month.

She is 5 and bright and loud to begin with. We have a very stable family life although we have seen some 'big' events over the past month (bridesmaid duty, family holiday, very ill Grandma)

Over the past month we have seen an alarming switch to 'manic and aggressive' with intrusive thoughts.

Manic meaning fidgeting constantly, running everywhere, talking nonsense, not listening or trailing off in the middle of sentences and beginning a new conversation, unable to sleep, impulsive behaviour (stealing food from others plates).

Aggressive being shouting, swearing (in the 'child' sense, think 'shut up' 'stupid. 'hate you!') being violent to myself and her father, going from 0-100 (in terms of calm to raging) and not being able to calm down once she is up a height. She has also kicked the cat in her rage. We have told her we will get rid of him if we even think she might do that again, for his safety.

Intrusive thoughts are mostly about private parts (I'll spare you the details) but essentially the growing realisation that everyone has them, and that she wants to look at everyones all the time. Or saying that she is 'thinking about private parts' all the time. Shes also making up horrible songs/rhymes in her head (and telling us, in guilt) that she can't get out. Shes asking us constantly if we are going to 'tell on her' for every little infraction and believes the police/school are going to get her if she does anything wrong.

The worst ones are the things she has come out with such as 'I want to punch someone to death with my hands' and thinking the recent fire in london was 'really funny'.... I honestly dont know what to do. i think I am going to book an appointment with the GP for a chat as its (her behaviour) has changed so much in such a short period of time.

Has anyone had any experience of this before?
What would you advise?

Def get specialist advice. In the meantime, maybe you could find out if there is something troubling her not by asking directly but by having some relaxed, quiet time with her when she can do some drawing or painting and talk about what she is painting. Sometimes a child that age will access something subconscious that they can't or don't know how to speak about and get it out in images. Or play with her with some dolls or teddies, and see if anything emerges. Keep it very, very relaxed and low-key, obviously, and don't press her for information, just be accepting about what she tells you.

I would ask the school psychologist to have a chat with her, this might be something that has happened a few months back and could also be a little friend in school, I know it's hard to even think about it , but my experience with kids showed me that a 5 year old that's been abused at home could potentially abuse another one ... Also, children are more likely to share things(secrets) with a school staff they had seen before, feel ashamed about it. I found out a couple months ago from the school psychologist that my son was very unhappy and distressed about another child in his class, he was asking for help because this child would not leave him alone, I had the "pleasure" of meeting the child's mother on a school trip this week, their relationship is chaotic and the child who's big and tall for his age constantly forces kids to play with him and give him attention all. Communication is Key OP. Your lovely little girl will be back to her normal self once you get to the bottom of it, get GP and school involved. Hurting animals is not a very good sign, somewhere ,some how ,somebody has hurt her maybe not physically but maybe emotionally. An ill family member can also have big impact on a child,but she definitely needs your help .best of luck.

If they feel ashamed about it*

I have no advice or experience OP, but my god you must be beside yourself.
I hope you get to the bottom of all this very very soon. X X

I think police or SS would much rather you didn't ask her any more questions before they become involved. Professional child protection workers are good at helping children disclose abuse, and it will be easier if you let them do their work. If it turns out to be necessary.

Again, A1Sharon, I am not concerned with what you think.

Of course it could be something else. It could be. Think whatever you want Sharon.

Op, the stomping the baby game. That baby is your daughter. She is stomping on herself, making herself go away and escape from the abuse. Coping mechanism. Everything she is saying and doing makes 100% sense in the context of sexual abuse. The police coming after her, the abuser has warned her of many things, rizlett has a lot of insight, listen to her.

Your daughter is trying desperately to tell you without breaking the abuser's commands/warnings. And yes, the abuser may have threatened to kill her mother if she tells. You must get her alone, totally alone in the house, nobody else, send everybody else out on long errand, and tell her straight, ask her directly, Who is touching you in your private spaces? I am your mommy. I love you. I will protect you no matter who. Your private places are yours, not for anybody else to come near, not me, not daddy, not grandma, not grandpa. Tell me who, and I will protect you.

If you love your daughter, this will be the first thing to rule out, and you will do it now. You don't want the abuser to touch her ever again. Look at this through her eyes. What she is doing makes total sense, I was her.

OP I am just reading through the comments I missed, or at least some of them and trying to see what you have actually said. I know a lot of people have mentioned abuse and I did wonder that at the start, and still do.

But I also think kids do sometimes say very odd and quite nasty things. It doesn't mean there is not a problem, there may be. But it may not be abuse.

Just find out what it is and be ready for anything. Try and remain open to the fact that if something has happened you may be able to help your dd work through this and get professional help for whatever the issue is.

Has she started going on line or using a computer? My son is six and uses our home PC. Some of things he can access, like the 'Happy Wheels game', looks like cartoons and just fun, but the scenarios are awful and we have had to tell him not to watch anything about killing or being hurt.If she is using a device you can check the history and see what she has seen.

I would also be concerned about the other girl.

Could this girl be influencing her?

On a positive note,I would also say that your dd said herself she did not want to play that baby game, which means she does realize it is not a nice or normal thing to play.

Def sounds worrying to me. Specially the sudden change and the death/sexual connotation of it all.

I agree with a PP, see if you can get her to 'tell' you what is happening not with words but with drawings/dolls/etc. It might be easier for her for different reasons, specially if someone is threatening her if she talks

GotToGetMyFingerOut I am so sorry for your experiences.

Crikey "I have suffered with anxiety and particularly OCD all my life" I am so sorry to hear this. I had OCD as a teen and it was never diagnosed. It morphed into an eating disorder and I also had Anxiety in my thirties. I had CBT for the anxiety and am currently having therapy for the eating disorder.

Maybe one day we will find all these things are much more common (and linked). Although my OCD did not start 'properly' until I was 15 or so I think I had signs of it before that.

OP, I don't say this lightly, and I'm sorry if you think it harsh but...

As someone who has recently found out my dd has been abused by my own brother, please don't make the mistake of thinking ANYONE is above suspicion. I never would've believed or thought of it in a million years. But it tragically does happen. I hope that's not the case for your dd, but please don't discount people because they're trusted family members.

You need to speak to dd alone, and involve other parties as pp have said. I sincerely hope you find a reason or trigger that is not abuse

Sorry can't reply more extensively.

Doctors wasn't an apt at 4pm, I was going to book at apt when I finished work at 4.

I have asked her on my own and asked if anyone and I khad any anyone had done any of the bad things we have been talking about.

She's still talking about that other little girl who was involved in the 'game' says she's following her around and she has been asked to play a different non violent baby game...

LittleBeautyBelle - Please stop with all the 'If you love your DD you'd do XXXX' ..... of course the OP loves her daughter FFS! You're really beginning to sound odd.

Good luck OP I hope you get to the bottom of whatever is causing the behaviour.

Well you've asked and there is clearly something upsetting her there that she isn't able to articulate, so it may be that pressing her further will just cause her to clam up more and become more stressed. Try to observe, give her time and space and safe opportunities to open up while waiting for an appointment.

Like greyhound said, it is a positive thing that she was able to identify that she was not happy with the game and said so. Also, if something has happened, it is better in a way that she is 'acting out' like this so you have identified there is a problem, rather than just squashing it down which could lead to all sorts of more entrenched problems later. Hard as it is, those are some positives for you to hold on to, and you are taking the right steps to help her.

As she keeps talking about the other girl, maybe she has been quite disturbed by her game and needs some help getting her head around it.

The school are probably a good place to start with this. Have you let them know and your concerns regarding the other child?

about a year ago... in a small village school where I live and all of my children attend, it turned out the caretaker had been abusing children, this was an infant school. the eldest children were 7 at a push. he had been doing it for YEARS. we're talking 30 odd years. one child... like it little one completely flipped and his mother pushed for him and he told on the caretaker. police searched his house and found thousands of images of children changing in p.e and all sorts. he is now in prison thankfully. but just to make u aware. this does happen. and doesn't always seem like the "obvious" people

I appreciate you feel strongly about preventing abuse, BeautyBelle but I don't agree that op should assume abuse and interrogate a child ("WHO is touching you?")
Putting such pressure on her won't necessarily illicit a truthful response and maybe traumatic for the child.

The suggestion upthread to draw or paint and allow the child to open up in a relaxed environment is a good suggestion.

Could you book an appointment with a child psychologist? They might be able to quickly get to the route of whether abuse is happening, and by whom.

Please contact NSPCC for advice. They will help with how to communicate with your daughter.

Push for urgent GP appointment and urgent referral to child psychologist.

Open and frequent communication with school including issues with other child. Also ask if there are any children ( possibly older) who have mobile phones in school and could have shown your daughter and other girl disturbing images. Likewise internet access.

Keep a diary of what your daughter is saying and any particular triggers which make her seem/ feel worse.

Have a look at any artwork she's done recently - possibly encourage her to draw. It can be a good way for her to express her feelings.

I'm afraid trust no one and try to arrange that she's with you when she's not at school.

I hope you get the support your daughter and you need as soon as possible .

Speak to school about your concerns not just if they have noticed a change in her behaviour. They can help keep an eye on things especially with regards the other child and the games.

The OP is not a trained professional LittleBeauty. She needs professional help and she is going to get it.
Of course she loves her daughter!
We don't even know she has been abused, others are saying they experienced the very same things and were not abused but suffered with OCD or other conditions?
I don't think talking to her daughter about people touching her is going to help her if she hasn't been abused?

Very worrying OP, really hope you can get a GP appt quickly

seminormal, I stand by what I said, these are classic signs of sex abuse by a trusted adult or authority figure and I think it's odd to put all those signs aside and ponder vitamins or OCD or the other little girl before ruling abuse out. I think you're odd to lash out at me over this, your kind of attitude does not help victims of abuse at all. If there is an abuser of this child, they will appreciate your comments dismissing my experience and my advice. It will enable them to continue on. I can see why you think I'm over reacting, but my sense of urgency is to prevent any more abuse. Based on Op's long list of disturbing behaviors of her dd that are textbook signs of sex abuse, I don't think I'm wrong in this urgency.

Yes, look at all the other possibilities, great if it's something else, but first you've got to rule out abuse. Her behaviors are very disturbing and it's more likely to do with her not her friend. Look at the other little girl, but the signs point to an adult or older teen at least. Let me go back and look at op's other comments here, because I thought your dd was playing the baby game?

It is scary to think that someone close to you could be abusing your child, but that is what the signs are and above all, this is about helping Op's dd. LIke I said, OP will not be offended by anything I've said if she loves her daughter above herself, above anybody else, and in good faith I'm sure she does, that's why I am not hesitating in telling her my thoughts.

And of course ask her dd calmly, I'm talking to you here with some sense of urgency for obvious reasons but sit down with her calmly. You've tried to ask her in all sorts of ways. She is afraid. She's not "supposed" to tell. Be calm, matter of fact, and direct, caring but not emotional. Not stern, light but not lighthearted if that makes sense. Make it clear that it is not the end of the world, her telling you, by your calm demeanor.

There is obviously something she is not telling you because she is afraid.

As a related note, it is also a red flag when someone plays devil's advocate and acts like child abuse is not happening when there is a long list of definite signs that should be checked out asap. This type of person is called an enabler.

If there is an abuser of this child, they will appreciate your comments dismissing my experience and my advice. It will enable them to continue on

As a related note, it is also a red flag when someone plays devil's advocate and acts like child abuse is not happening when there is a long list of definite signs that should be checked out asap. This type of person is called an enabler - Fucking hell you are one nasty disturbed individual you are. More than a little assumption in your post. You are one abused individual, there are sadly thousands if not millions more in the world - are their opinions not valid then? Only yours?

Please don't confront your child and ask who is touching her..

I was abused and I didn't (and still don't) consider it 'touching'. It was violent assault.

Please don't ask anything that could put words in her mouth. She needs to see someone who can help her to find her own voice. In your shoes I would look to find a child therapist asap.

Haven't read everyone's comments yet but just wanted to add that Role play can be very effective for finding things out from children who may not want to talk about an issue.
For example with dolls/barbies.
Also try not to ask leading questions, let her talk not limit it to yes or no answers
Hope you get to the bottom of whatever it is