To be very worried about this behaviour?

[poopsqueak]

I am worried about my daughters behavioural changes over the past month.

She is 5 and bright and loud to begin with. We have a very stable family life although we have seen some 'big' events over the past month (bridesmaid duty, family holiday, very ill Grandma)

Over the past month we have seen an alarming switch to 'manic and aggressive' with intrusive thoughts.

Manic meaning fidgeting constantly, running everywhere, talking nonsense, not listening or trailing off in the middle of sentences and beginning a new conversation, unable to sleep, impulsive behaviour (stealing food from others plates).

Aggressive being shouting, swearing (in the 'child' sense, think 'shut up' 'stupid. 'hate you!') being violent to myself and her father, going from 0-100 (in terms of calm to raging) and not being able to calm down once she is up a height. She has also kicked the cat in her rage. We have told her we will get rid of him if we even think she might do that again, for his safety.

Intrusive thoughts are mostly about private parts (I'll spare you the details) but essentially the growing realisation that everyone has them, and that she wants to look at everyones all the time. Or saying that she is 'thinking about private parts' all the time. Shes also making up horrible songs/rhymes in her head (and telling us, in guilt) that she can't get out. Shes asking us constantly if we are going to 'tell on her' for every little infraction and believes the police/school are going to get her if she does anything wrong.

The worst ones are the things she has come out with such as 'I want to punch someone to death with my hands' and thinking the recent fire in london was 'really funny'.... I honestly dont know what to do. i think I am going to book an appointment with the GP for a chat as its (her behaviour) has changed so much in such a short period of time.

Has anyone had any experience of this before?
What would you advise?

LittleBeautyBelle whilst I realise your intentions are based on concern for this child, you cannot diagnose her over the internet!
OP, obviously something isn't right. Your GP is a good place to start, I hope you get to the bottom of this and it is nothing too traumatic.

OP I have no idea what is going on but something clearly is, I have a DC of the same age and really feel for you

for you, it sounds like you're doing the right things, keep us posted

Well that's exactly what I've said to her. That if something is going on (I positioned it as bullying) then I would do everything in my power to help her. So she should tell me.

Her dad has made her reiterate the 'no secrets' rule too and he asked her if any grown ups have ever asked her to keep a secret for them. She said no. Honestly we have asked her in all sorts of ways and she hasn't given anything away.

I do think small dc go through a phase of being fascinated with death - my younger DD certainly did - said a few un savory things and we didn't mention them and it phased out. older dd has been a little more graphic but she has no idea what she is saying she said once " I am going to cut your neck off" she got it from boy at nursery. They have no understanding at all - about death - concepts, how we shouldn't laugh, its what we are teaching them - precisely now. So some small things you say I wouldn't be too worried about however - over all - yes it all together sounds worrying.

little has good advice to sit and scrutinise every single person she has been with and seen since behaviour change

Op I had a similar kind of situation with my ss and I called the NSPCC who were really helpful.

Call: 08088005000

dc have such a vast difference in understanding of everything to us though. she may not even understand what your asking of her.

someone abusing her may be making it more fun you dont know - she may not understand what bullying is.

My 9 year old knows what it is but still doesn't have 100% clarity on it.

I would also tackle school. this is coming from somewhere it takes one child to say stuff like this.. Again awful to think but what if it was your DH? And he is asking this stuff of her - how confusing it would be ..

Such a worry for you OP - I do hope you get to the bottom of it and restore peace to your poor DD - and your family.

I wonder if someone has been telling her that she is doing something wrong, and that if anyone finds out, the police/school are going to get her?

That's what I wondered too.

I do hope we're all overreacting and that this is just a difficult phase she's going through. But in your case I would not trust anyone except for myself. So sorry.

Maybe she can't cope with the idea of death and someone she loves dying so is playing out the baby killing game because she wants to feel in control of someone dying and babies - and cats - are the only thing smaller and less powerful than her.

Just a thought, but it may be the strange friend who's doing the abusing? Touching of thighs and threats of violence towards babies, maybe she only has this friend and is desperate to have a friend so won't tell but idk. Just a thought

Oh OP this sounds so distressing for you all. I really hope you can get to the bottom of it

I wonder if there's anyone else she can talk to - at school or a family friend? She sounds so unhappy poor little thing

And for you

Shes asking us constantly if we are going to 'tell on her' for every little infraction and believes the police/school are going to get her if she does anything wrong.

This part of your post stands out for me, OP. The sudden concern about getting in trouble with authority figures (assuming that this was absent before, or at least much less of a worry by current standards) suggests that somebody has threatened her with this repeatedly and it has become a really big issue for her. I would prefer not to speculate about why somebody would do that to her because it has worrying implications. I really hope you get to the bottom of it quickly and get her the help she needs

I think everyone needs to stop claiming its abuse. How upsetting that must be for the op when it could realistically be a variety of things!

Op hope you have had a helpful appointment at the doctors. Abuse isnt the first thing that came to my mind and as someone who was abused at 7 i never displayed any of that behaviour.

I know lots of people are saying abuse, and I obviously don't know, but I do know that I suffered a lot with intrusive thoughts when I was a child and I was not abused. I had thoughts that made me feel guilty and terrible, a lot like your daughter describes, though mine weren't to do with body parts, admittedly. II have suffered with anxiety and particularly OCD all my life, and I can clearly see that this was the start of it. I think I was just very sensitive to thoughts that other children would have instantly dismissed, and the worry made it bigger, if you see what I mean.

Somerford it could also be the kids at school who are telling on each other. My four year old and the neighbours for and five year old play out the back and the amount of times they say "Im telling on you" "no dont tell on me" is ridiculous.

Its time to get professionals involved. First things first an emergency appointment with the GP, where you can talk to them first without her present. Be very careful about phrasing and asking questions, a professional needs to pick this apart.

In the meantime, keep her at home, speak to the school about your concern in her behavior give her loads of love. It could be chemical/ physiological but also could be she is being exposed to something more sinister. This must be so worrying, but I would get to the GP asap.

Something really amiss here. My first thought was abuse too. This is in no way normal behaviour. I would pay for an independent assessment by a child psychologist if you can afford it.

Sounds like she is suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder op

The intrusive thoughts rung a bell with myself as at that age I also had intrusive thoughts and would tell my mam of them constantly as a compulsion to rid of them.

It was only when I was 17 and attempted suidice I was given an ocd diagnosis. Nowadays I'm much better.

What's the mental health support like I your aready op? Can you afford private?

Sorry, just seen you had an appointment at 4pm. Hope they took everything seriously and they will look into physiological cause first.

Of course you don't know for sure what is behind the sudden change in your daughter's behaviour, and let's hope it's something short-lived with a more innocent explanation. But just in case, I urge you to please stop ruling out potential abusers just because they are someone you trust. ALL abusers are someone people trusted. Doting grandfathers, loving fathers, special uncles, priests, pillars of the community, the lovely coach who just loves kids and would do anything for them. Think about who might have had the opportunity, because that's all it takes. Nothing to do with what you might think they are capable of.

school says she is fine
If there is no change at school, she is choosing to behave like this or its something at home imo.

Could it be that her friend is being abused and is saying stuff to her/playing strange games?

How awful for you OP.

You're doing all the right things with talking to the GP and school etc.

I'd be inclined to book her for a counselling appointment so if she does need to disclose anything there's an unconnected person available to her?

Read this thread with horror. So sorry for you and your LG, OP. Hope the Dr appt brings positive action. I agree with pudding, keep her home if possible while this is sorted.

I think in the absence of knowing what is really going on, then it's a reasonable assumption that child abuse needs to be at the very least ruled out. When I did training in this area one thing that stuck out to me was the lengths people go to to not believe abuse is going on, it's a normal reaction to try and explain things away simply because it is so awful to face. I don't think I would be basing my certainty on the fact that she has said nothing like this is happening to her as you don't know what she has been primed to say. Verbal communication is not so reliable - at any age.

I also hope that you can rule abuse out and quickly but it is worrying that so many people get that from your post.