To be very worried about this behaviour?

[poopsqueak]

I am worried about my daughters behavioural changes over the past month.

She is 5 and bright and loud to begin with. We have a very stable family life although we have seen some 'big' events over the past month (bridesmaid duty, family holiday, very ill Grandma)

Over the past month we have seen an alarming switch to 'manic and aggressive' with intrusive thoughts.

Manic meaning fidgeting constantly, running everywhere, talking nonsense, not listening or trailing off in the middle of sentences and beginning a new conversation, unable to sleep, impulsive behaviour (stealing food from others plates).

Aggressive being shouting, swearing (in the 'child' sense, think 'shut up' 'stupid. 'hate you!') being violent to myself and her father, going from 0-100 (in terms of calm to raging) and not being able to calm down once she is up a height. She has also kicked the cat in her rage. We have told her we will get rid of him if we even think she might do that again, for his safety.

Intrusive thoughts are mostly about private parts (I'll spare you the details) but essentially the growing realisation that everyone has them, and that she wants to look at everyones all the time. Or saying that she is 'thinking about private parts' all the time. Shes also making up horrible songs/rhymes in her head (and telling us, in guilt) that she can't get out. Shes asking us constantly if we are going to 'tell on her' for every little infraction and believes the police/school are going to get her if she does anything wrong.

The worst ones are the things she has come out with such as 'I want to punch someone to death with my hands' and thinking the recent fire in london was 'really funny'.... I honestly dont know what to do. i think I am going to book an appointment with the GP for a chat as its (her behaviour) has changed so much in such a short period of time.

Has anyone had any experience of this before?
What would you advise?

Glad the visit at the GP went well. I agree with the Doctor that the game your daughter has referenced should DEFINITELY be reported to the school.

...doctor...

BTW I've complained to the independent.
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/child-sex-abuse-signs-parents-need-to-know-nspcc-mood-swings-aggressive-bed-wetting-paedophilia-a7793686.html .

I am the person who wrote this message on Mumsnet. My daughter is going through an extremely difficult time. I want to explicitly state that I DO NOT give permission for my message to be displayed in your newspaper.

I want to say that I think it is absolutely abhorrent that a journalist would poach content of this type for a story.

I went on Mumsnet looking for advice on a very delicate situation. I got some really excellent advice and now I feel like I can't use that particular feed (or even the forum) anymore for fear that my daughters story will be splashed across some badly written, click-baity article.

Firstly the URL is horrendous. And insensitive.

Secondly the picture used is completely inappropriate. The image itself is sexualising, the story is about abuse. I'm sure you can see my point.

Thirdly, he writer has jumped from a brief list of symptoms that I have presented and jumped to the conclusion of abuse, when quite frankly, there are a number of reasons that my daughter could be presenting with these symptoms.

Fourthly, you have a quoted a person from the NSPCC who has never met myself or my daughter and has been privy to only the briefest of information regarding her. I find it highly offensive and unprofessional that she would comment, even on an anonymous story. I am complaining to the NSPCC too.

I would like you to remove my case from the story. I would like you to change the URL. I would like you to change the picture that accompanies this story. I would like an assurance that you and your staff won't steal sensitive content from a help forum that might actually stop someone getting help!

I would also LOVE to hear back from you when you have done this.

Happy to discuss.

I've also complained to the Independent. If anyone else wants to, if you follow the link then at the bottom of the page there is an option to complain. Just send them an email.

OP I'm so sorry for the trouble you're having, it sounds horribly stressful. And then to have it printed in the press! I'm really disgusted with the Indy, I've always thought of it as one of the good ones 😥

I hope you get this resolved soon, and that it isn't abuse for her sake. Good luck

OP, please let us know if you get a response from The Independent.

OP, did you ask the GP about PANDAS?

I have an 11 year old who has been exhibiting similar behaviours since she was about 6 years old. She was diagnosed with OCD a year ago and ASD a few months ago. Good luck OP - whatever is going on you have a long road ahead of you.

I have also sent a complaint. Disgusting that they would take this story and make that article from it. You are probably going through hell worrying about your daughter and then they do this.

Thank you for all the complaints, it's really made me feel better.

OP, did you ask the GP about PANDAS?

Hi OP,

Are you honestly happy with the response from the GP? To liaise with the school about the "baby game" and to give it another month and come back? What about all the other alarming behaviour? You stated in an earlier post that the school have confirmed that your DD is fine at school.

I just think I would want more urgent action taken. You have had a PP mention PANDAS plus, as many others have stressed, abuse needs ruling out, in which case, action regarding that needs taking now.

Sorry OP, I get it about stretched services, but that's not a good enough response from the GP. Again, PANDAS, or the possibility of abuse. Statistically, abuse is is carried out by someone close to the child/family, the GP sounds like they're in the 'stranger danger' mindset, as if it can only be someone new or unusual that could be a potential abuser. Sell everything if you have to, or put on a credit card - and go private. This is not something I'd wait a month over.

Well I was accepting of the GP's response, yes. Thats why I have agreed to what she has suggested.

I do take on board what you say about the GP suggesting it was a 'new' person though.

I did mention PANDAS too but she thought it sounded like more of a developmental stage coinciding with a number of stressful events. Again more investigation will be done in a month.

The school has a counsellor and thats going to be part of the agenda of the meeting that I will be having with them tomorrow. (still no teacher - broken toe). I will ask if they can set up a meeting with her and chat to her one on one (or with me or her dad, whatever she prefers). I will also mention the game.

Yesterday she said she was worried about break times, how she gets distracted then loses her friends because she is not looking in the right places. It sounds like she is going out with her friends, seeing some cool older kids, staring, chasing after them then losing her friends. Completely distracted! We talked about maybe saying to a friend that she wants to play with them before they go out and walking out with them so she doesn't lose them. This is in stark contrast to the past 3 years where she has had the confidence to go up and play with ANY child, even children that were older/new. Its just so odd.

Was there any mention of neurological tests, OP?

I would be more worried that GP did not try to rule out organic(neurological) causes. Ruling out the organic causes should be the first thing to tick off before mental health diagnosis. Would definitely go back. The change you are describing is just too big and too sudden! I would also get the eye test done in the meantime as somebody had already suggested.

Hope everything goes well for you.

PANDAS is not a legitimate diagnosis and is not recognised by doctors.

Wow! Apart from the parts leading to potential abuse , the sudden aggression etc sounds like my 4 year old. I hope you get some answers x

Good on you for complaining. Apart from the fact that it's plain lazy journalism to pretty much repeat your post verbatim, it's a horrible intrusion when you are going through an awful time. Strong thoughts x

Alpacasandwich - it absolutely is a legitimate clinical diagnosis and one that I know plenty of children are currently being treated for in the UK. Our GP diagnosed my son, who was the second case she had come across. We were extremely lucky to have a knowledgable GP with prior experience. She initially referred him
To CAMHS but after we returned because of increasingly strange behaviour she gave antibiotics and arranged tests. The improvement was as drastic as the onset - it was remarkable. Unless you think it is more plausible that children just get crippling OCD, tics, rage, violent impulses etc overnight then coincidentally they just go away when given some penicillin? PANDAS is called 'rheumatic fever of the brain' and occurs for the same reason that scarlet fever and rheumatic fever do in response to strep.

OP a throat culture for strep would be a quick, painless way to find out if your daughter has it in her throat as a starting point, and a course of penicillin would show results in days if it was PANDAS. If you don't want to put her though blood tests yet that is understandable. Strep cultures take about 2 weeks to come back. The potential benefits from those relatively minor interventions could be very important and hugely outweigh any risks. What if it was PANDAS and antibiotics were all she needed? I urge you to go back armed with information.

a

My own father sexually abused me from age 5. My mum didn't have a clue. It wasn't til I was a teenager that if came out. This post screams abuse. I'm so sorry OP. Thinking of you and your little girl.

I don't have any particularly useful advice, sorry. But in regards to the 'baby game' I worked with some children in a nursery who played a very similar game in the 'hospital corner' because some of them had new siblings and they'd seen a lot of 'One Born Every Minute' on the TV.

The whole 'stamping on the baby' part of it might just be one child or a few, who aren't mature enough to actually understand how sinister this sounds. In the 'house corner' kids were always cooking me butterflies and saying other things they didn't realise were weird.

If the child has a strep infection they'd also have fever, pus on tonsils etc. which has absolutely not been mentioned here.

PANDAS is one of those diagnoses like chronic lyme disease that isn't a mainstream clinical diagnosis.

Alpaca - This is off topic really but would you mind explaining what you mean by "lyme disease isn't a mainstream clinical diagnosis"? I'm just wondering because it sounds like you're saying lyme disease isn't real, but it most definitely is, it's caused by a bacterium and infection can be confirmed via blood tests. I know two people who've had it after being bitten by ticks & one if them got very very ill with a type of encephalitis as the lyme disease wasn't caught soon enough. The other was lucky and spotted the tell tale rash so was able to get antibiotics early & only suffered from mild flu like symptoms.

If I've misinterpreted your post & you weren't suggesting lyme disease isn't real, I apologise. (I don't know anything about PANDAS so I'm not commenting on that aspect of your post.)

Sorry for the misunderstanding- i said chronic lyme disease, not regular lyme disease.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_Lyme_disease

Quick update-

Great grandma has passed away. My daughter is weirdly more relaxed. I have had the meeting with the school who were absolutely fabulous and have had some one on one sessions with he (her class teacher) and have given her a memory jar to write memories down and put them in. She has written and written and written.

THE school did a kind of map of her stresses recently and my word it was extensive. I felt pretty awful looking at it and the teacher said even an adult would probably be struggling.

The teacher pointed out the change in her routine (loss of grandma as secondary caregiver as she was looking after great grandmother) and the second hand stress I was probably giving her because I was worried.

She's been placed on the list for the school counsellor too.