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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU- ADHD child potentially excluded from trip

180 replies

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 19:30

My 8 year old son has recently been diagnosed with ADHD. We have always seen an increase in negative behaviour at school when he is taught by a different teacher. Last week his usual class teacher was out of the classroom lots and the cover teachers reported rude, disrespectful behaviour and lots of backchat. This week his teacher will again be out of the classroom a lot. His class are going on a trip on Friday to an outdoor activity centre. Today his teacher told me that basically if he is rude and disrespectful to the cover teachers again this week he won't be allowed to go on the school trip (which we have already paid for.) He's made a reward chart where he can gain smiley faces. AIBU to think that this is a very harsh punishment for rudeness? And that he's setting him up to fail? Especially as it's something he struggles to control. It's really no different to punishing him for not being able to sit still for long/ for being loud/ for not concentrating or paying attention for long periods. It's all part of his ADHD (for which the school are currently offering no support because he's doing very well academically which they say means they don't have to actually 'do anything'.) Is this really much different to punishing a child with a physical disability for something they struggle to do? AIBU to ask that they don't continue with this reward chart? Just to add that I don't think they're trying to find a way to stop him from going on the trip- or at least it wouldn't make sense for that to be the case- there are no safety issues, he's not a danger to himself or others, wouldn't wander off. At worst he'll be over excited and loud.

OP posts:

Trifleorbust · 12/06/2017 19:42

If it was an educational trip I would agree with you. But it sounds like a fun day out and I do think it may be appropriate for his behaviour to have a proper consequence, depending on how extreme the behaviour was. I am not sure I can agree with you that rude behaviour is part of having ADHD. Going to get flamed...

Runny · 12/06/2017 19:48

No, it's not harsh. Verbally abusing teachers is not acceptable and he needs to learn that. You need to back the school up on this.

EvenFlo2 · 12/06/2017 19:52

Being rude is not a core feature of ADHD. You could argue that the impulsivity element can present as rudeness but this is a stretch if your DS can switch it on and off with different teachers.

Positive rewards using star charts etc are a good middle ground imo...

Isadora2007 · 12/06/2017 19:52

I'm not sure how he can have the lack of control that "makes" him abuse a teacher but not lack of control that could make him a safety hazard. It can't be both. So either he is not responsible for his choices and shouldn't be punished but then equally is a risk for a day out at an activity place or he CAN control his behaviour and is able to attend the trip.

Sounds like your colluding with him using his ADHD as an excuse for bad behaviour.

One thing I'd say is that the cover teachers should be advised as to the ways of managing behaviours that work for the class teacher so your son has a consistent approach.

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 12/06/2017 19:54

ADHD is not an excuse for rudeness. If he can control himself well enough to behave at an activity centre, he needs to control himself well enough not to be rude and not to backchat.

bootygirl · 12/06/2017 19:55

YANBU.
Children with ADHD do need to learn not to be rude. However in my opinion he needs his punishment for his behaviour to be immediate appropriate and short. If it's to have any benefit.
Children with ADHD can not be expected to have numerous changes in routine without some fall out. Also by making the consequence something that happens in the future i.e. School trip is too far ahead in the future for him to understand.
I sympathise that the school do not wish to support your DS because he is achieving acedemically. This in my experience is very common and unhelpful.

Isadora2007 · 12/06/2017 19:55

And surely at worst he could well be rude to staff at the centre- getting a bad reputation for the school or even the whole class being sent away.

DioneTheDiabolist · 12/06/2017 19:58

YABU. ADHD does not excuse rude, disrespectful behaviour and backchat.

Palomb · 12/06/2017 19:58

If he is repeatedly rude to teachers then he doesn't deserve to go.

mycavitiesareempty · 12/06/2017 19:59

Poor impulse control can be part of ADHD but I imagine it's hard to establish if it's this or just common or garden bad behaviour.

Axissyrr · 12/06/2017 20:00

I think YAB slightly U. Did the cover teacher apply sanctions then and there? I think that's a key thing. He needs to have warnings and then immediate consequences that take into consideration that he has ADHD. There's no point punishing a child 2/3/4 days after the actual incident. However, I do think it's fair to say that if he is rude to the cover teacher again, say, a day before the trip, that he's not going/won't get to do everything on the trip.

If it's an educational trip, I think they should let him go, but not let him, say, go to the gift shop if it's a museum, iygwim? Reward charts sound like a good idea.

GreenTulips · 12/06/2017 20:03

I agree - if he's rude to the teachers he's being disruptive and the whole class can't concentrate and learn their lessons. It's not fair on the teacher or class.

There has to be some middle ground - how will the other children feel if he's rude and still goes?

Do you normally back the school?

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:05

My point is that it's part of his impulsiveness. He speaks without thinking first. He doesn't have much of a 'filter' for what might upset someone. It's not reserved just for cover teachers, it happens with his usual teacher too, it's just worse with the cover teachers because it's different to his usual routine. Each teacher works slightly differently so he's potentially not sure where the boundaries lie with these different teachers.

I also think that calling it 'abuse' is an overreaction. He's not calling them names, swearing at them, telling them to shut up.

Yes he does need to learn to control these things. We've been working on that for years!

OP posts:

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:07

Yes until now I've always been supportive of his school and their decisions and I didn't question this today because he was in the room. He knows I check in with his teacher most days, it's very much a 'united front'.

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CloudPerson · 12/06/2017 20:10

He's being set up to fail.
If the problem is with unfamiliar teachers then the problem is quite possibly not yet in his control. He may be anxious about the change, or being with someone who doesn't understand his needs.
It would be fairer if he was offered some support or given some strategies to use (although it's quite short notice for them to work).
Unfortunately it's normal for things like ADHD and ASD to have the expectations that rudeness isn't a part of it, when it's very common for the high expectations of behaviour to mean that the child can't succeed, and for rudeness to be a result of lack of support and understanding.
His behaviour should be a clue that he's needing support, not punishment.

Tinseleverywhere · 12/06/2017 20:11

I think it's terrible he gets no help at all.

Runny · 12/06/2017 20:11

What exactly is he saying to the teachers? It must be bad for them to threaten a punishment like this?

Axissyrr · 12/06/2017 20:11

I get what you're saying about not having a filter, but I think he still needs to learn that there are consequences to what he says. What happens if does this in secondary school? They aren't as lenient in secondary school, and it's hard to track down every single teacher he has to get a report most days, unless he has a written report every day. Does he have a support system in place currently?

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:11

Isadora- I know my son and I'm confident that he wouldn't be rude to the staff at the centre. I've never known him to be rude to a stranger. His other behaviours are certainly not extreme enough to require the whole class being sent away and banned. If I felt that was the case I'd agree that keeping him at school is the best option.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 12/06/2017 20:13

Children with ADHD do need to learn not to be rude. However in my opinion he needs his punishment for his behaviour to be immediate appropriate and short. This. DD wouldn't get that consequence. Short, sharp and connected to the event.

tabulahrasa · 12/06/2017 20:14

How rude is he being?

My DS has AS, no filter at all and honest to the point of bluntness - whether you wanted his opinion or not. But if he's actually rude enough that a teacher was applying sanctions, it was because he meant to be rude.

Trifleorbust · 12/06/2017 20:14

So what is he saying/doing? And why is he liable to be rude to new teachers but not to instructors?

CloudPerson · 12/06/2017 20:15

Axis, consequences often don't work well with non-NT children.
What you say about secondary is true, but the onus should be on him having adequate support that helps him to cope rather than on him being able to control himself because he's told to.

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:16

No there is nothing in place currently. I've been trying to arrange a meeting with his school since Easter. I'm very aware of the challenges we will face in the future, trust me if there was something we could do to improve all this we would do it! Excluding him from a trip won't change him, it won't make anything better. He tries really, really hard. All this will do is tell him that no matter how hard he tries it won't be good enough.

OP posts:

rjay123 · 12/06/2017 20:17

You've never known him to be rude to a stranger, but a cover teacher (where he doesn't know where the boundaries lie) is so different?

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