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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU- ADHD child potentially excluded from trip

180 replies

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 19:30

My 8 year old son has recently been diagnosed with ADHD. We have always seen an increase in negative behaviour at school when he is taught by a different teacher. Last week his usual class teacher was out of the classroom lots and the cover teachers reported rude, disrespectful behaviour and lots of backchat. This week his teacher will again be out of the classroom a lot. His class are going on a trip on Friday to an outdoor activity centre. Today his teacher told me that basically if he is rude and disrespectful to the cover teachers again this week he won't be allowed to go on the school trip (which we have already paid for.) He's made a reward chart where he can gain smiley faces. AIBU to think that this is a very harsh punishment for rudeness? And that he's setting him up to fail? Especially as it's something he struggles to control. It's really no different to punishing him for not being able to sit still for long/ for being loud/ for not concentrating or paying attention for long periods. It's all part of his ADHD (for which the school are currently offering no support because he's doing very well academically which they say means they don't have to actually 'do anything'.) Is this really much different to punishing a child with a physical disability for something they struggle to do? AIBU to ask that they don't continue with this reward chart? Just to add that I don't think they're trying to find a way to stop him from going on the trip- or at least it wouldn't make sense for that to be the case- there are no safety issues, he's not a danger to himself or others, wouldn't wander off. At worst he'll be over excited and loud.

OP posts:

harderandharder2breathe · 12/06/2017 20:17

If they feel he won't listen to and follow instructions because he's distracted or busy backchatting then it's probably a safety concern.

It sounds like he is able to control the rudeness some of the time so he needs to focus on controlling it at school as well. It's not ok for him to be rude to teachers and disrupt the class. He needs to learn not to be rude. And yes that will be very difficult for him and he won't always manage it especially at first. But children need to learn many difficult things, not just academically.

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:20

As far as I'm aware it's things like answering back, or ignoring instructions. Or if he's told off he'll argue that he's done nothing wrong (sometimes it's true, he's blamed for things that he hasn't done. He won't just keep quiet and take the telling off, he'll argue his case.) So as an example at home I'll say 'teas ready' and he'll say 'no it's not' because in his head that means he can continue playing.

OP posts:

Fairenuff · 12/06/2017 20:20

OP have you been offered the option of medication to help control his impulsiveness?

babybythesea · 12/06/2017 20:21

I'm always so on the fence about threads like this.
I work in a centre which takes visiting school groups.
On the one hand, I think all kids should be able to access what we offer.
On the other hand, I've had things really disrupted by kids who can't behave, whether that's through SEN or not.
My most memorable was a kid who walked out of the room and got round a corner before the adult who was with her could catch up (not a big space). They shot round the corner, and she'd vanished from sight. We had loads of members of the public wandering around, plus it's a huge site. Teachers immediately set off to look for her. They weren't that familiar with the site. I called colleagues for back up but they didn't know what the child looked like. The only one who knew the site and knew what the child looked like was me, so I was essentially organising the search. Teachers were understandable frantic. It took us 15 minutes to locate the child. And what were the other 27 children doing? Sitting in a classroom, not doing the activity they were supposed to (we were just about to head off for an exploration activity outside) because the person leading it (me) was trying to locate a missing child, and we didn't have enough adults now that several were also hunting for child one.
I cannot tell you how relieved I was when I spotted this kid. But she was apparently known for running off if things didn't go her way.
She absolutely has the right to go along to things, but the other children also absolutely have the right not to end up sitting in a room for 15 minutes waiting because one child behaves like that, whatever the cause.
Maybe rudeness isn't on the same level, ,but it can be disruptive all the same. If he doesn't cope well with new staff, maybe an activity centre would be a place that triggers bad behaviour and maybe the staff are worried both about his safety and that of other kids if he's rude to the centre staff, or makes it hard for them to do their job? Not saying this is the case, but wondering if this gives a possible reason?

muckypup73 · 12/06/2017 20:21

Adhd is not routine bound like Asd is it?, if he is being constantly rude and cant follow instruction then its probably best he does not go he may habe Adhd but he still needs to know right from wrong.

Axissyrr · 12/06/2017 20:21

Does he have a statement? If he does I think he legally does require some sort of support (don't quote me on this, going off my own statement and such). If he doesn't, and the school aren't being very helpful, could you try going through CAMHS or something like that? Apologies if my other replies weren't very helpful .

thereallochnessmonster · 12/06/2017 20:22

Which is it - he's never been rude to a stranger but he's rude to cover teachers, who are strangers to him? That doesn't make sense.

Sounds like you're not backing the school up, and colluding with him that his ADHD is the cause of his rudeness.

He needs to learn that he can't be rude to teachers. Imagine if all dc were the same - what a nightmare it would bt for the teacher.

babybythesea · 12/06/2017 20:23

Just read your update - ignoring instructions at somewhere unfamiliar with unfamiliar staff and loads of activities to try out isn't minor, I don't think. It could cause serious problems. Could this be their concern?

thereallochnessmonster · 12/06/2017 20:23

She was apparently known for running off if things didn't go her way.
She absolutely has the right to go along to things, but the other children also absolutely have the right not to end up sitting in a room for 15 minutes waiting because one child behaves like that, whatever the cause.

YY to this. You have to think about the majority of the children.

Herschellmum · 12/06/2017 20:25

I have a child with ADHD (and asd), currently not in school we moved house and the new school refuse to take him, so I can safely say I get it.

However, I'm all for fighting for my sons right, but I don't think ADHD is an excuse for being cheeky, I think no matter what the issues there are always consequences for actions. If he was cheeky to an employer for example he would be punished for that.

However it fully depends on the details, is the issue him being cheeky to the teacher or is it when ten routine is changed with a sub teacher, or more disruption than usual? For example my child can cope with changes in routine. Also what one person sees as cheeky and rude another may find funny, so it fully depends on the details.

My child has a home tutor, and he says things like, "you talk too much" which could be seen as quite rude, but the point is he find noise irritating and he's trying to say "let me get on with my work without talking" ... thankfully she totally understands however I think it could be quite different for some to understand that he's not deliberately being rude, he's just trying to explain what he needs.

So it really depends what the circumstances are.

user1489675144 · 12/06/2017 20:26

I haven't read all the replies but had to reply to OP.
I work with lots of children and adults with ADHD - rudeness is not a core feature! He appears to be able to control his rudeness with some teachers and not others.
ADHD can behave and can also choose not to behave very similar to other children. Don't use ADHD (struggling to pay attention, being hyperactive, etc etc etc) as an excuse for rudeness.
Support the school and insist on him being polite and nice to others but understand the real difficulty with paying attention, sitting still etc .

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:26

No there's no statement.

We haven't been offered medication, the doctor didn't feel his ADHD is severe enough. His teacher has never had huge concerns about his behaviour, he says things like 'low level disruption'. He was shocked when he was diagnosed. So clearly he didn't feel his behaviour was that extreme either.

OP posts:

Jimmymum · 12/06/2017 20:27

It is dreadful havin a bright child with ADHD as I don't think people do understand how impulsive they are. I'm not making excuses that just the reality of it. Yes it is behaviour that should called out, but exclusion for a day trip that he might actually benefit from, no. The Equality Act 2010, children with ADHD have "protected characteristics". Shouting out is listed, so they cannot treat your son "less favourably" as he has a diagnosis. The is "indirect discrimination arising from a disability". Phone up the Education Authority and nip it in the bud.

Cantusethatname · 12/06/2017 20:28

Could you offer to be a helper on the trip?
I have a son with this condition and it helps to be as friendly, supportive and conciliatory with the staff as possible.

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:28

The cover teachers are not strangers.

OP posts:

MrsTerryPratchett · 12/06/2017 20:28

If you work with people with ADHD or any SEN don't use this phrase, "ADHD can behave and can also choose not to behave very similar to other children.". My DD is not a disorder. She is a person.

StarryCorpulentCunt · 12/06/2017 20:29

Sorry but I think you are making excuses for him. You can't have a child on a trip who doesn't follow instructions, constantly answers back and struggles with change in routine. As others have said, it is probably a H&S concern and he DOES need to have consequences for his behaviour.

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:30

And we are teaching him that he canny be rude, we have spent years trying to do this.

OP posts:

ThatsWotSheSaid · 12/06/2017 20:30

They should reward good behaviour not take away something nobody else has to work for.
Kids with ADHD are impulse and often lack insight and don't self monitor effectively. It's simply not as easy for him to be appropriate all the time as it is for other kids.
If his behaviour made it dangerous to go yes then unfortunately they might have say he can't go but it sounds like they just want to punish him.

CouldntMakeThisShitUp · 12/06/2017 20:30

I'm confident that he wouldn't be rude to the staff at the centre. I've never known him to be rude to a stranger

Oh.....so a 'change in routine' in a strange/new setting, surrounded by new people with their own way of doing things doesn't/won't trigger him?
Yet a small change in routine in a FAMILIAR setting where the basic rules remain the same does?

What you're describing doesn't sound like ADHD - just a bad mannered child who lacks discipline and knows how to use his diagnosis to get away with naughty behaviour.

His behaviour doesn't affect his schoolwork - just certain people around him.

I have ASD and can be very blunt and black and white in my thinking - however, at his age, i understood the difference between good and bad behaviour in spite of that.

The reward chart is for his benefit - so he can visually see and be aware of his behaviour and conduct.

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:30

*can't

OP posts:

Crumbs1 · 12/06/2017 20:31

If he can avoid being rude to strangers he can avoid being rude to teachers. His rudeness is not a feature of ADHD - particularly if mild. Children with ADHD can be just plain naughty to. I don't blame the school. He'll fare far better in the long term if his behaviour is not accepted and excused now.

Wolfiefan · 12/06/2017 20:31

So he can control his impulses enough to not be rude to strangers? Then why can't he control them at other times? I'm confused.

Original poster

theSnuffster · 12/06/2017 20:31

So why aren't they being truthful about why he may not be able to go? Incase it's seen as discrimination I assume?

OP posts:

Runny · 12/06/2017 20:32

You still haven't told us what he said OP?

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