To think you should help tidy up after playgroup?

[GreenShorts]

I mean the sort that churches run with volunteers for a pretty nominal cost. At the end of my local one every week the same people sit on their backside whilst everyone else pitches in.

This obviously excludes anyone who might find this difficult (we sometimes have grandparents and I completely understand they may find it difficult). But the people who have happily been running around after their children until tidy up time comes around. Am I unreasonable to think they should get up and help?

Picking up a few toys is not volunteering. It's teaching your child that we tidy up after ourselves.

The attitude towards volunteers at kids groups (from toddlers to older kids) is pretty shocking so often.

And in my experience the people who do tidy up, or collect on time etc are the ones who need the group the most. Pisstakers are pisstakers in all walks of life.

I'm resigning from three chair positions next week and the parents who've brought me to this will soon realise they had v.little to man about, but all three groups will fold unfortunately. I'll still help tidy at toddlers though, for dd's sake as she needs to learn that's what we do in life.

I'm feeling incredibly thankful right now that the groups I go to sound nothing like what I've seen described on here.

If the problem is as bad as it sounds, I think speaking to the people who are causing you this much distress directly. If they point blank refuse to tidy up then feel free to continue calling them every name under the sun behind their backs. Since you're so concerned about being a good role model for your children that is.

I think shall have to agree to disagree. I think that sitting there and watching everyone else tidy just because you can't be bothered is something that ruins the nice social environment of a playgroup because it causes resentment.

I don't think they should need to be asked to help. I think they should see other people doing it and pitch in. It does bother me that people don't. I take the point on the passive aggressive tidying and will pack that in.

What frustrates me more is that it's the same women who have to be told to stop their children physically and verbally bullying the other children because they can't be bothered to supervise them.

I'm feeling incredibly grateful for the other parents who do pitch in and help.

What frustrates me more is that it's the same women who have to be told to stop their children physically and verbally bullying the other children because they can't be bothered to supervise them.

Physical and verbal bullying? This is so much more important than the tidying thing. Bit of a drip feed there, but clearly bullying is a problem. If I felt unable to approach the parents about this, I'd avoid a group where this happens tbh. I'd rather just hang out with my dc at the park or swimming pool where they aren't at risk of being bullied!

Rockaby the bullying is addressed with the parents but it's hard to constantly remind someone to parent their children. I don't particularly want to avoid the group as it's a really good group in the whole and I've made a lot of friends. It got me out of the house when I desperately needed it.

The thread was about the tidying and I guess the conclusion is a mixture of opinions.

At our toddler group the same group of mums who left their coffee takeaway cups lying around for me to clear up were also the ones who sat ignoring their children oblivious to their behaviour (or wilfully ignoring). I did actually have a word with one mum of a boy who thought pushing toddlers over a great game. She stopped coming, which was a shame for her son as he just needed watching!

There is always going to be something undesirable at toddler groups. I guess it just depends how bad the problem is and how much it bothers you. It'll never be totally perfect. as that's just not possible when lots of different people are trying to use the same service.

Bullying dc and parents who refuse to supervise their bullying dc sounds pretty hard to bear though. I personally would vote with my feet there, but if you are happy to stick with it anyway, good for you.

Parents who are otherwise inoffensive, but don't want / maybe don't feel able to tidy?; and who really knows which it is? Not a problem for me really.

I used to do what I could but I had a child that couldn't be left alone so that wasn't very much. I never used to have a drink at toddler groups because he needed watching so much. Buggies had to stay in a corner of the room so I didn't have the option of fastening him into that either.

What frustrates me more is that it's the same women who have to be told to stop their children physically and verbally bullying the other children because they can't be bothered to supervise them.

We used to have a local authority childminder attend our toddler group. She did respite care for families in need. These were struggling and often chaotic families. Sometimes coming to toddler group with the respite carer was the only 121 attention the child ever got and/or the only activity out of the home for the children.

Except none of the users of the toddler group knew this. Those running it did. It was never widely disclosed. This woman had some exceptionally challenging toddlers in her care over the years.

Some of her charges were violent to other children and were consistently 'a handful'. She often had 2 children with her and given she only saw then once or twice a week, she did her best but the children were going to push and shove others and generally have poor social skills.

The number of judgy pants parents who would tried to get this childminder and her charges refused entry.

Toddler groups like ours were exactly what such a child needs. If you put the needs of the child front and centre - those with poor social skills need social environments like toddler groups most.

As the leaders for the group - we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The carer of the violent children doing her best, but judgmental others (who have absolutely no idea of her situation, it was never widely disclosed) making her feel rotten but understandably concerned for their own child.

The solution we found was that we (the three of us who ran the group, with our own toddlers present) helped play with the child in this childminders care. We helped keep the child busy and were extra pairs of eyes to diffuse potential flare points before they happen.

Instead of sitting on the sidelines bitching and judging, we found ways to help the situation in a positive way.

We engaged with the difficult child even when the carer wasn't.
We tidied up without being nasty about why we tidied up.
These two examples stem from the same viewpoint.

Out at one toddler group I set up frequently, the other I wasn't there early enough as my eldest had a later drop at nursery as a reasonable adjustment and it was set up by the time I got there. The twins were then generally full on, my friends used to bring me tea so I could get a cup as my kids were still explosive for it all (despite being the only small enough group to be successful for them).

And I don't mean violent to others by explosive I mean melt down after melt down, often provoked by someone else unsupervised child sadly enough. I guess I did my bit that way, by defacto supervising the 'good' children whose parents ignored them so mine wouldn't be triggered so much.

FATE - I haven't seen anyone in this thread judging a carer who is obviously interacting with their charge, and thereby failing to clear up or something. I personally judge those mums who come and leave their rubbish for me to tidy up, sit on the sidelines chatting with their group totally uncaring of what their child is doing. When we have had mums who are struggling turn up, then we try and give them a break. But the "taking the piss" mums also do exist!

And actually part of the reason I help run the group is because I am often struggling. Badly. But there isn't anyone there for me - and I don't want other people to feel the same way I do a lot of the time.

FATE that's a very different situation though. There are women at our playgroup from the local mother and baby unit. They always help to tidy and watch over their children.

The parents I'm talking about sit and chat whilst their children bully others.

I don't really think that always looking for a possible excuse or reason for someone's behaviour is such a good thing. We approach them, mention what their child is doing and ask them to please come and diffuse the situation.

You clearly have a very empathetic viewpoint. I also have empathy for my friends autistic son who is very often the target for the bullying. His mum needs to get out of the house too.

And I cannot mind the difficult child - I'm hard pressed enough watching my crawler and my 3yo, plus sorting toys, snacks, song time etc etc.

It's fairly simple though really.

People may struggle and need the support, but can still be polite and help when they can.
Most people who can tidy up after their kids will do because it's the polite thing to do

Piss takers are entitled piss takers whatever the situation and will probably continue to be because it's not worth trying to get a piss takers to change their attitude. In a few years it'll be piss takers suggesting the PTA run a creche during performances but not helping out, suggesting staff do unpaid overtime for their child but not making sure they do their homework etc.

It costs nothing and does not hurt to have manners. 'They' (the P takers) obviously don't.

I love the mumsnet worthys and their utter inability to accept that some people are selfish gits. That is a far more likely explanation than the litany of excuses for sitting back and watching other mothers clear up your kids Lego. It's sweet but very naive.

I was at a residents meeting last week and at the end everyone started to leave which would have left the organiser (who had put out all the chairs) to put them all back. I simply asked everyone I could if they would mind doing a few of the chairs. Nobody refused and the job was done in no time. Point I am making is that some people need to be asked so why not try the direct approach rather than build up resentment.

KERALA

If you mean me, then reread my posts please; that is not at all what I have been saying.

Nah it was fates amusing "maybe they" etc etc that I found quite funny. Lots of virtue signalling at how caring and understanding such posters are

Many of us would like to sit around chatting whilst everything is cleared up. Most of us don't volunteer to run these groups as we don't want to commit to the hard work and effort. People like fate obviously don't mind, hence her stance on here, but the lack of volunteers show that most people don't share her enthusiasm for volunteering. BUT most decent human beings appreciate that these things are only run because of the good deeds by those that do volunteer and despite our preference for not getting involved and tidying up etc, we do help in an effort to lighten their load and appreciate they do the really hard graft part and that we wouldn't get to do such things if it wasn't for people like them. We'd probably prefer not to get involved and sit on our arses drinking tea, but would never dream of being so entitled. So fate yes we can judge others who don't have the same code of decency.

Exactly rightwhine nail on head. Have found it's human nature where others are prepared to do the gruntwork many are all too happy to sit back and let them..

Yep many volunteers except some really community minded people like fate, or those who give the volunteers a helping hand aren't doing it because they really want to, they do it because they know that if they don't, nobody else bloody will or all the hard graft will continue to fall on the poor mugs who do reluctantly volunteer until they give up when they get sick of it. At least by helping out a bit, there is a chance that things continue.

KERALA

Ah right, thanks for clarifying.

Tbf I volunteer at one, and love doing it, and because of the timing there is a void of time between it ending and me picking up my child after school. It's never bothered me tidying up after either.